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Sons Of God ?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Preacher Ron, Jan 3, 2004.

  1. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    I never should have let this discussion get to me. I publicly apologize.
     
  2. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows New Member

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    This is a great topic!

    I'm going to weigh in on the side of "sons of God" being angels. The Enochian writings describe the descent of Azazel and Shamhazai (angels of high standing) to earth with subsequent inbreeding with female humans. This was responsible for the inception of many of man's evil ways.

    Sounds crazy? Maybe - but this was the way it was perhaps understood by many Jews of that time. The book of Enoch ceratinly is not as old as the Pentateuch - it was probably redacted in postexilic times. Still this offers valuable insight into the meaning of this difficult verse.

    As far as the names of God - let's not call "Jehovah" a b@stardization. It's a Latinization! Latin does not use "Y". So it would be "Iehovah". Anglicanization of Latin words starting with "Ie" always changes the "I" to "J". The Hebrew letter "vav" can be a "W" or a "V".

    As far as vowels. The Hebrew is "YHWH" There is a "shewa" after the "Y" and an "ah" after the "W". It is thought to be derived etymologically from "hayah" which means to exist or become.

    By the way I agree with Helen - last all act like children of YHWH! [​IMG]
     
  3. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    I have no problem with the term "sons of God" being angels/ messengers, because the children of God have the message of God.

    Also I cannot picture these "sons of God" as ascribed to being fallen angels shouting for joy as the morning stars are singing. That is why I related the passage of II Peter showing the estate described in Jude of their habitation to be in chains of darkness.

    In that passage in II Peter, the semi-colon determines the previous action as satisfied, or completed. It acts as a period, but with things to follow to continue the thought. That being the thoguth expressed of being aware of false prophets.

    II Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

    Now since the LORD cast these "fallen" angels to hell, how did they ever get out to have marital relations with the daughters of men in Gen 6?

    Are the devil worshippers then right in believing he has power over God to access these demons of his to roam the earth in physical form at will? NO!!! Neither does satan have power over God's airspace either. satan is the prince and the power of the air, but never above God's control.

    Even in Isaiah 14 as the King of Tyre, lucifer knew he couldn't be above the Most High, only "like" Him/ impersonating Him,but he did think he could exalt his throne over God's, that's why the LORD cast him down and locked up his angels.

    They're locked up. Did the daughters of men some how enter into the realm of the damned to have marital relations with these "fallen angels" ? NO! No one has ever come back from the regions of the damned except ONE, His Name is Jesus, having dominion, authority, power over Death, Hell and the grave!!! (He took the keys from satan that he could never have used.)

    (Daniel must be in deep study on this one, where are you Daniel?)
     
  4. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    OBTW<DD<

    I noticed when you pasted Job 38:6 your version ended the verse with a comma , that is why you should stick to the King James. I just noticed this while backtracking through the thread and can see why so many think the morning stars and the sons of God were there during the Creation, it's all to the idea of continuing action because of the mistake of the comma. The King James correctly separates the action by the semi-colon, indicating the previous action halted or was complete before the action of verse 7. Hmmm? something for the "noodle sifter".
     
  5. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows New Member

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    The 2 Peter verse is a good parallel. In fact in Enochic "legend" Azazel was locked up! He was bound up in the earth because he was disobedient to YHWH. It was his intermarriage with humans that was part of his fall - for this God punished him.

    What has all this to do with Christianity? Maybe nothing! If you're not very familiar with Rabbinic writings, Enochic Judaism, or the midrashim take my word for it - there is some WEIRD stuff in there! These things are by no means authoritative for us as Christians.

    But these per-Christian Jewish writings reflect Jewish mindset and theology in the Postexilic and second temple periods! I would never put faith in these writings beyond literary value. The Bible is the only true authority!

    But - I have no problem challenging a "traditional protestant" INTERPRETATION if textual, linguistic, or historical evidence suggests something different! [​IMG]
     
  6. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    Thank you Charles, I now know why the Book of Enoch failed the Canon.

    Everyone I know who has done the type of study into this topic that references the Book of Enoch give the idea of fallen angels having marital relations with humans. You have exposed fallacy in the thinking by , yes, even the Jews of yesteryear.

    Hmmm? I wonder if Josephus has any historical data? I think not, but he might.

    The Holy Bible, an account of real people, in real places, with all spiritual applictaions of life.
     
  7. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    QS, spare me the KJVO nonsense. I am a Christian.

    Anyway, let me further explain the passage.

    That "sons of Elohim" can refer in the O.T. as angelic beings is not under question here.

    These "beings" cohabited with women. That is why they are sent down into the pit and held in chains.

    Note that the context of 2 Peter and Jude is sexual sin of a bizarre nature.

    Why don't you tell me why only some of the fallen angels are in prison and not all of them.
     
  8. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    I have never read and never plan on reading the "Book of Enoch". I do know that Jude quoted it because at least part of it was truth.
     
  9. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    Daniel, I never said you weren't a Christian, why the defensive?

    Where are these "fallen angels" that aren't locked up?

    I have yet to read any scripture that clearly defines cohabitation with human women, unless you mean "posession".

    Still this embodiment of fallen angels is too far fetched according to scripture, it is incited by non- Canonized references and superstition. The concept is "forced" into the meaning of only a couple of passages.
     
  10. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    Statements like this make Billy Graham's view of hell more believable to some, but not this cookie.
     
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