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Soonness: A fact that needs to be dealt with

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by asterisktom, Mar 30, 2010.

  1. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    I disagree, as anyone reading will note you comment is not true in the slightest.
    Your main problem - you can't refute that what I gave regarding Josephus writting establishes 'those' people I referenced as false christ's.

    This doesn't refute the fact I have not stated there were 'no false christ's' only that the portion you used from Josephus was not about false christ's but that his words 'there' were understood to be more in line with false prophets, unless you think they are one and the same?

    Stop playing and deal with what is given or back out. Simple and not that complicated.

    Again, I bring into question your integrity.
    You agian have made another accusation (of which the first still stands as unproven) but here you are saying I am being deceitful, which simply put in any language is that I am purposely trying to deceive someone. Now - prove your accusation or repent of the statement.

    It is because of you childishness that I will not continue with you. You can't maintain a simple dialoge without ad-homs, condecending remarks, and quite frankly an ungodly attitude. When you feel able to put these things away, I have problem debating them with you, and (of which I haven't yet done as Hank is) bringing the other passages into the discussion which also prove, most specifically the full pret view, to be completely unbiblical at it's best.

    The 'record' you gave said no such thing. It is assumption and wishful thinking for that passage you quoted from Josephus to mean specifically false christs. But again you don't deal with what is give only with what you think or assume. Thus it is indeed pointless to continue.



    Yes, I know what people wish it meant but when the majority of Greek scholars disagree with your 'interpretation' of what 'world' means here then you stand in error. This is why commentators, regarding this type of argument, should not be the material we seek out first but the language scholars who can give us the words meaning according to 'context' and not theology.


    Already addressed this.

    Again, already addressed it. It is a dual prophesy. They were looking for his literal physical return from which He was to rule and reign from in Jerusalem and is why they as Jesus about when He will re-establish it (Acts 1:6), as well as it was what the early church was looking for for nearly 350 years (300 years of which it was a view completely uncontested (according to Philip Schaff on Church History), at least until Christianity became legal via in approx 450 ad and the early Roman Catholic Church changed the historical and orthodox view (according to Justin Martyr) from Premil to Postmil type of Replacement theology (the early view which rightly was modified later to a softer Covenant view) and then finally the amil position came into being.

    It is note Amillennialism was the dominant view of the Protestant Reformers.
    The Lutheran Church formally rejected the Premil view in the "The Augsburg Confession— “Art. XVII.", condemns the Anabaptists and others ’who now scatter Jewish opinions that, before the resurrection of the dead, the godly shall occupy the kingdom of the world, the wicked being everywhere suppressed.’"
    Yeah, we don't read that anywhere in scripture :laugh:

    Either your ignorance or your willfulness not to listen is astounding here. Please show where I said this has not ever happened? Especially in light of the fact I hold to dual fulfillment and have stated such of this verse. I have already acknowledge there were wars and such in that time pertaining to what was coming but not that what was done fulfilled the prophetic statement completely especially in light of many other prophecies which speak to the same thing.

    Again with your petty childishness. It is and has become more apparent you are incapable of civil or christ-like discussion.


    This is my last post to you on this. I have debated this subject many time before with many others over the last couple of years, and only two other people have interacted and behaved as you are. I encourage you to be better than that. :saint:
     
  2. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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  3. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    It is apparent you are unwilling to give straight answers to almost anything.

    Maybe if you would answer more honestly and openly instead of leaving yourself an escape hatch and wiggle room in ever answer it wouldn't get to this point. You are very clever in your ability to do so, it just so happens on this topic I have studied enough to see and understand exactly what you are doing.:wavey:
     
  4. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Allan, you are not going to get anywhere with these fellows.

    Here is an article by a Baptist preacher, he considers Preterism heresy and says why. The article is not long, but in 5 parts. He shows how Preterism must reach outside of scripture and depends heavily on the writings of men.

    Part 1

    http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-...y2009m9d10-The-Heresy-of-Consistent-Preterism

    Part 2

    http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-...d11-The-heresy-of-Consistent-Preterism-part-2

    Part 3

    http://www.examiner.com/x-19527-Ral...erism-and-the-resurrection-part-3-in-a-series

    Part 4

    http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-...lation-period-and-Consistent-Preterism-Part-4

    Part 5

    http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-...nt-Preterism-and-Gods-word-part-5-in-a-series

    And it is true, you see the constant reference to the writings of men, but the scriptures can be our only authority.
     
  5. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    I was letting this thread die, but the irony of your two statements was too good to pass up.
     
  6. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    This is indeed rich in irony.
    1. We Preterists depend "heavily on the writings of men."
    2. Proof? Well, take a look at this 5-part article.:laugh:

    Umm... isn't that the writings of men?

    For the record: It was the writings of inspired men - the Bible - that led me to my Preterism. And I suspect that many Preterists would say likewise. It was a handful of verses that just wouldn't conform to the system I had learned from mere men's systems and had held for years. Finally a careful study of the Bible, cross-references, lexical usages led to my present position.
     
  7. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    I don't base my theology on that article.

    Is Josephus inspired? Gill? Hardly. Go back and read Grasshopper's posts and it is easy to see he relies on the writings of non-inspired men, none of which knew of the Holocaust which was much worse for the Jews as a people than the destruction of Jerusalem.

    And that is another problem, many Preterists believe the Tribulation to be from 63-70 A.D. and affected the Jews only, but the scriptures show the Tribulation will affect the whole earth and all men.

    Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
    10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
    11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
    12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
    13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
    14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
     
  8. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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  9. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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  10. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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  11. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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