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Soulwinner must be saved to lead someone to Christ?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Ready to Harvest, Jun 19, 2018.

  1. Ready to Harvest

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    This is another of the Andersonite doctrines. It seems like it leads to a "landmark" view of salvation. i.e. you need to verify the pedigree of the person leading you to Christ, and the person that led him to Christ, etc.

    Anderson said "Everybody that got saved, somebody got them saved.” and “If you are not saved you won’t get anyone saved”

    Link: Steven Anderson preaches that God can’t save unless the soulwinner is saved – NewIFB.info

    Also, looks like at least one of the Andersonite proteges is saying the same thing:
    Matthew Stucky preaches that unsaved people cannot lead someone to Christ – NewIFB.info
     
  2. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    The Spirit calls. The Word provides understanding of the call.an unsaved person can accurately quote The Word.
     
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  3. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    The Puritans used to say that God can draw a straight line with a bent stick.
     
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  4. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Who wins the Soul Winners Crown when an unbeliever leads someone to Christ? 1 Thessalonians 2:19 (KJV) "For what is our hope, or joy, or CROWN OF REJOICING? Is it not even YOU in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at His Coming?"

    Then Jesus said this in Matthew 15:14 14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

    Luke 6:39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

    Is not the unbeliever blind to spiritual things? 1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    Can a natural man receive Spiritual things? They can quote scripture if they were brought up in Church that is true. The Spirit can work that is true. But can the blind lead the blind? Or do they both fall in a ditch together?
     
  5. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    The Scripture is not blind. The man is merely a messenger. A donkey can deliver the Word of God.
     
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  6. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Good point!... And one did!... Brother Glen:)

    Numbers 22:28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?

    22:29 And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee.

    22:30 And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay.

    22:31 Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face.
     
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  7. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    So too do the stars deliver the Gospel. Each Zodiak signs and their three constellations show the Gospel. Before the written word there was the Witness of the Stars. Many who have no Bible today can still read the message written in the sky. So that there are no unreached peoples in the world! Good point Tyndale and Glen. But the question is can an unbeliever be used, if so do we have an example of it?
     
  8. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Pure mysticism.

    Faith comes solely by the word.[Romans 10:17] It doesn’t come from constellations.
     
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  9. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    John 10:21 Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?

    Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

    Is the unbeliever a child of the devil? Thus can they open the eyes of the Blind? How can the unbeliever hear without a preacher, who sends the preacher? The Holy Spirit, so can an unbeliever preach the Gospel of peace if they aren't sent to preach that Gospel?
     
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  10. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Ever read E.W. Bullingers book "The Witness of The Stars"?

    The witness of the stars : Bullinger, E. W. (Ethelbert William), 1837-1913 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

    As well as the book of Job? Job 38:31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
    32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? 33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?
    All these in Job 38 are clear references to the zodiak (Mazzaroth) and the constellations. Job knew how to read them and saw God's plan.

    Virgo for instance the means by which the saviour would be born thus we see the Promised seed of the woman. She has a Branch Zechariah 3:8 in her right hand corn in her left. Showing the Coming One. It's constellations Coma the desired is seen, as the woman and Child or the Manchild. Centarus showing two natures of the Savior, also the despised sin offerning. Bootes the Coming One, a man Coming with a Spear in one hand and sickle in the other Psalms 96:13 Before the Lord: for he cometh, for he cometh (bo or greek bootes) to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth. Revelation 14:And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

    Nothing mystical or mysticism there the whole plan of God is seen in these signs and Constellations nothing like the perversion of the Zodiak today if seen in Biblical light.
     
  11. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Stars, moon, sun do not tell the gospel. Ppl don’t get faith from looking at the stars and constellations. Faith comes from His word, and His word alone. It’s called Sola Scriptura, and you’re not one who believes that. :(
     
  12. ehbowen

    ehbowen Member

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    Luke 18:9-14: Who gets credit as the soul winner for leading the publican to be justified and reconciled with God?
     
  13. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    It’s a parable. You can’t build a doctrine upon them.
     
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  14. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    So that prior to the written word Noah and his Sons and the generations before Moses wrote the first 5 books and before Noah were lost.

    Except we know that is not true for the Word is Christ and the Holy Spirit reveals God’s plan in many ways.
     
  15. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    I believe on the Lord Jesus as the savior of Those Who died for my sins as well as the sins of the whole world. I believe He is God incarnate and man sent to be the appeasement for sin. I believe Jesus is the Word that He was with God in the beginning He came and paid the price for sin. Died was buried but Rose from the grave to give us eternal life through faith in Him alone. I believe the Holy Spirit can and does reveal Gods plan and uses all means necessary to reveal those plans to mankind
     
  16. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    When I have the time I will have to look at the book in greater detail and thanks Mitchell for the resource but it does say in the following verses, that this thought is not off the wall so to speak... If it gives ALL THE GLORY TO GOD, is it wrong?... Brother Glen:)

    Psalms 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

    19:2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
     
  17. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    "Who gets credit for leading someone to Christ?"

    That is the most self-centered view of the salvation of a sinner I've seen in a while. Evidently some think "it's all about me" more than is health. :(
     
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  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God uses his word and the Holy Spirit to bring the elect sinner to salvation in Christ, he can use anyone to deliver the scriptures, as it is the scriptures themselves that are inspired of/by God
     
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  19. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Who gets credit the answer of course is the Holy Spirit, however we all win a soul winners crown for leading someone to Christ, and the person who lead us shares and the one who lead that person shareanin the crown of rejoicing and the Holy Spirit gets all the credit of course.
     
  20. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I once heard that in Chicago near the Pacific Garden Mission, some of the winos on the street would emulate the Gospel preachers back in the "old days", and people would believe on Christ.

    I have no trouble believing that our great God and Father could use whomever and whatever He wants to propagate His word, and for His Spirit to do the "calling" through that.

    But, I also see that His primary means is through His preachers:

    " How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
    15 and how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!" ( Romans 10:14-15 )


    " And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
    12 for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
    13 till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
    14 that we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
    15 but speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
    16 from whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love." ( Ephesians 4:11-16 )




    His blessings to you all.
     
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