Southern Baptists, an Unregenerate Denomination

And he bases whether or not a Southern Baptist is a christian on how mnay are in the building on Sunday. So how many need to be in attendance before he believes the people there are really christians? I think he needs to read the bible, we aren't the ones who judge who is a christian and who is not, thats God's job. I'm affraid he doesn't seem to know any Southern Baptists or he'd know better. His article is about Southern Baptists, that means not just some SB, but SB in general, meaning all SB. Well I beg to diifer, I'm SB and am defiantely a saved christian. Have been for ten years, and in all that time have missed two Sundays, once when my grandmother died, and once when my sister in law died. I recently recieved my 9 year perfect attendance bar. Do you think the author of that article would say I was a chritian?

 

Excellent article!

Katie,
Jesus did say Christians would have fruits.
No fruit.
No root.
No changed lifestyle. No regeneration

There is a serious warning to those who abandon the Church in Heb. 10:25-39, that such that do such things are showing themselves to be damned and not saved. The term "backslider" is never used in the New Testament. Those who abandon the Church are assumed to be lost in the same league as Judas.

 

I personally believe that unregenerate church membership is a problem that affects congregations of all denominations. Just my observation. This is not new. Even Spurgeon claimed he probably baptized many lost people.

 

Brother Robert -

You certainly do know how to pull me back onto a thread with you, don't you?
A very interesting viewpoint and I would have trouble denying it or defending us SBC'ers. The statement about the "mainstream Christians" jumps out at me very vividly. In our last business meeting, a lady about my age, a new Baptist, suggested that for a newly established "Children's Church" we don't necessarily need Baptist literature, we could just use "Christian" literature. I began to tremble it angered me so. I thought to myself, "Which literature? Jim Jones, David Koresch, or Charlie Manson?" Needless to say, I squelched that suggestion.
I can only speak for my own church. Our membership is about 500 with about 100 attending members. This number is an estimate since we don't take roll.
Our church has a middle age group with a lot of charisma and the older folks have retreated from their vigor and complain about the direction of the church around dining room tables and in their sitting parlors but sit mute in business decisions. How sad for us.
Another scary fact is that last year at Father's Day, I was recognized as the "youngest" father in attendance, and I am 37 years old. There is a twenty year age gap in my church as I recently pointed out to our deacons.
I can't necessarily blame the SBC for all of this, or for that matter, any of it. We send them funds up the network for missions but other than that, they have little bearing on us. One way in which I do blame them was the abandonment of the BYPU and the Baptist Training Union (BTU).These organizations supplied material for teaching Baptist doctrine at a local level. I have yet to find out why these programs were abandoned.
As you know, Brother Robert, I have a real passion for our faith. I think it is the most logical, intelligent, tolerant, and sound faith available to modern Christians. Margie and I have been asked to direct Vacation Bible School this summer and I have centered in on a program from Smyth and Helwys publishing on Baptist Distinctives. I suppose you have heard that Smyth and Helwys is a rather controversial outfit that is associated with the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship. My pastor, who appointed me and trusts me, is opposed to this publishing company but I have indicated that this is the program I want. As a compromise, I have appointed a team of five men, three ordained ministers and two laymen, to review this literature.
I truly feel that if we can educate our people on what this denomination is all about, they will feel empowered and we may save this church yet. I love Fork Union Baptist Church and I have no desire to attend Fork Union "Community" Church.
The article makes some valid points. There are 7 year olds in my church who have been baptized! Only one youth attends our business meetings. During the last deacon ordination, some deacons laid hands on shoulders instead of heads. The sanctuary does not inspire reverence in many of our youth. It all troubles me.
I guess my point, if I have one, is that the SBC is not where the buck stops. It is with the local congregations. I see the split of the SBC coming as certain as day follows the night. It may even be 30 years overdue. Unfortunately, unless there is some education of our membership, they will be apathetic about this and who knows where our direction will go?
This is a very personal posting for me, Mr. Vaughn, on a matter that troubles me. I would ask my brothers and sisters in here to pray for the SBC and my church and ask that God's will be done in both.

May God bless you

- Clint

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rlvaughn:
I am not posting the article below to slam Southern Baptists, but because I found it an interesting article that addresses the problem of unregenerate church members.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is important to note that Eliff is not only a Southern Baptist, he is an administrator with one of the Southern Baptist seminaries.

As a Southern Baptist myself, I agree with much of his article. Baptists, in general, are very adept in promoting numbers but not so accurate in explaining them.

For well over 100 years, Sunday school classes have been the center of Southern Baptist church organized activity. In other words, if you are active in your local church, it is very likely that your activity is through your Sunday school class.

So if one looks at the overall membership at SBC churhes (16 million) and then considers the number who attending (and just attend...this number does not necessarily denote activity) Sunday school (4 million) we can assume that around 25% of all SBC church members are really active outside of the Sunday morning worship hour.

A denomination that can only count on a 25% involvement (at best) is a denomination that may very well be in trouble.

Look at your own churches, SBC or not. How many of those on your roll are actually involved in the ministry of your church?

 

I love the SBC folks as well as other Christians. Where I think SBC,IFB have made their trouble is not staying true to their doctrines but wanting to fit in with the new in ideas and teaching of the day. Well everyone else is doing it so it must be OK.
For the most part it took the SBC folks about a 100 years to start turning from their doctrines. I recall in the 60's and 70's many SBC churches not using SBC SS literature because it had moved to the left of those churches. Also SBC folks weren't sending their children to SBC schools for the same reason.
Here in the south we IFB were able to move away from our roots faster than the SBC folds, it only took us about 40 or 50 years. We would make fun of what had happen and was going in the SBC and say that people like R.G.Lee , W.A. Criswell were wrong for not leaving the SBC. But look at the mess the IFB are in, in the south.
Do we care more about who we are or who Jesus Christ is? Do we spend time in prayer,and in study of the Bible? What is the Bible to us? Who is Jesus Christ to us? Is he the way of salvation or is He a way of salvation?
Is God first, then family, then church and then the rest of the things of life, what is first?
Do we go to churches to learn doctrine of Christ and what and how a christian should be or do we go for a show and hope it is over before the game,race or show starts on TV?
What was written above could be said about most christian groups in this country.
Most of us are more faithful at our golf game,or going to ball games, races or what ever, so what is number 1?

 

The SBC won the battle against attacks on the Bible, but that was just the first step of reformation.

The important next step (and which is slowly beign done) is to return historic Baptist doctrine and principles.

See www.founders.org

 

Should not the statistics of Eliff make Baptists reevaluate our evangelistic methods? Most Baptist churches judge their success by how many baptisms they have. If 9 out of every 10 of your converts abandon the Church within a year that should be a warning that something is not right.

I am sickened that my state convention in Louisiana at our Evangelism conferance every year gives out plaques to the churches with the most baptisms for the past year. It reminds me of the Emmy Awards or a Olympic medal awarding ceremony. There is a very worldly and sickening feeling of such events.

 

Chris,

If you're going to return to the earliest doctrine, you'll have to look back to the first Baptists in England, the General (Arminian) Baptists.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Katie,
Jesus did say Christians would have fruits.
No fruit.
No root.
No changed lifestyle. No regeneration

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


But this article isn't saying some who are called christian, but Southern Baptists. Southern Baptists are unregenerate, unsaved. Which there are baptized unsaved people in every church. But there are genuine christians in every church too, the article does not draw a line there. What kind of fruit do you need to see from Southern Baptists? It seems by nameing only one church, it is said thet Southern Baptists don't have that fruit, as you say.

So how about the question of, how does this article relate to your church? Not denomination, but your church.

 

To repeat Bro rjvaugn Katie, Mr. Eliff is a fairly well known Southern Baptist and and anyone who is SBC can testify that only about 25 -33% in most churches come to Church. His article was aimed at Southern Baptists because he is one though I'm sure the same stats can be found in the ABA, BMA, GARBC, IFB.

 

I'm very pleased and happy to report that the SBC State Convention of North Carolina elected conservative officers last week! There was one lesser office (can't recall what it was) that an incumbant liberal ran unopposed and won, but overall this is outstanding news -- IMHO!

 

rlvaughn
Mr. Elliff is a Southern Baptist and therefore has a special concern for Southern Baptists and their welfare.

That is all well and fine, but it says SB's are unregenerate, not some in the SB church. By not saying some, it is saying Sb's, meaning the the whole church. He didn't draw a line.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Temple:
The SBC won the battle against attacks on the Bible, but that was just the first step of reformation.

The important next step (and which is slowly beign done) is to return historic Baptist doctrine and principles.

See www.founders.org<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Two things:
1. AMEN!
2. See #1


Tom

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Wells:
I'm very pleased and happy to report that the SBC State Convention of North Carolina elected conservative officers last week! There was one lesser office (can't recall what it was) that an incumbant liberal ran unopposed and won, but overall this is outstanding news -- IMHO! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

AMEN!

 

I have a question about the "Conservative" takeover of the SBC. Agreed, the 5 Seminaries are now, for the most part, lead by Conservatives, but what about the 58 SBC Colleges receiving funds from the CP? I have looked at all 58 of them and they seem to be, 100%, in the hands of the Liberals. How can there be a "Conservative" takeover when only 1 in 12 of the schools is in conservative hands?