Southern Baptists, Immigration, and doing the right thing

You are ruthless. "If I speak with the tongues of mens and of angels but have not love then I am a resounding gong and a clanging symbol."

Where is the love?

 

Paul,

Our immigration policies do give preferences to professionals and those of high economic means. It does discriminate against people. A poor person who wants to come over to work is much less likely to get a pass to come into our country than a Physician. I know a person who was allowed to come to America legally, but then his wife and kids were denied. He came over to get his Masters, but his wife could not join her husband because she had no trade to offer this country. All over socio-economic issues.

Would you agree that such a policy is immoral? The man completed two years towards a Masters but left to return home because they finally gave up.

That is a picture of our immoral system.

 

The premise is that the law is immoral. If my premise is right, the bank robber issue illustration is wrong.

Secondly, would you agree with me on these three points.

1. Slavery is wrong because slaves are made in God's image thus should be treated like all other humans without regard to race, gender, or socio-economic level.
2. Abortion is wrong because babies are made in God's image thus should be treated like all other humans without regard to race, gender, or socio-economic level
3. Our immigration laws are wrong because immigrants are made in God's image and should be treated equally without regard to race, gender, or socio-economic level.

I have proven my case, you have offered no rebuttal. Thus, by debate rules, you lose and I did prove my claim. You are simply offering irrational "you did not" to avoid talking about the issue.

 

I use the Bible, that we are all equal before God, created in God's image.

I am questioning the criteria of our country and calling it immoral because it contradicts the Bible who clearly says we are all created in God's image and that we should not show preference to the rich or other groups, but should be equal to all.

Thus, the law is immoral because it violates the principle of humanity and showing preference to people.

 

BTW, would you hold the view that law is just and right because it is law, or would you agree with me that law should be judged by God? Would you agree that just because there is a law by a country does not make it a just law?

 

So, do you believe unjust laws, no matter what, should be obeyed? I would disagree and I believe most of Christian history would disagree. The Bible even gives examples of unjust laws being disobeyed.

So you believe that we should judge people based upon socio-economic levels? How do you reconcile Christ's apparent opposite view and James who specifically condemns such views? Specifically James 2:6

My statement is that we should not make immigration policy based upon our perceived worth of the humans coming into our country. My criteria is simple, we are not to show preference to people just because they have means, that each of us have a worth given from God. As well, it is immoral to restrict people because of man made ideas about human worth to America.

 

Paul,

There is nothing immoral about people taking jobs, in America we call that capitalism. In fact, I am excited they are willing to come into America and work, some Americans can learn a good lesson from them.

BTW, I did address the idea of wages in a previous post. Our modern system requires a certain number of workers in our country in order to remain economically viable. However, our birth rate has not kept up with these figures. Thus, we need a workforce who will come in and work to pay taxes and contribute to society so we do not deflate the economy. In some Eastern European countries, this has become a big problem and economically has depressed many places. Our economy would have seen deflation had it not been for immigration, legal and illegal.

Thus, having someone come in is a good thing in our situation or else I believe we would be far worse off than we are now.

BTW, there is no evidence that their low wages and immigration into the United States has affected unemployment rates. If anything, I might be willing to make the case that they actually helped the economy by preventing sticky wages. Our unemployment woes have more to do with the financial sector but also because productivity has increased mixed with uncertainty in the economy which has resulted in being less willing to rehire.

 

First, I am not a liberal. I am considered very conservative. I hold to Austrian Economics but I am very socially conservative.

Secondly, the Southern Baptist Convention is not liberal. I think this is evident.

Finally, I am saying that our current immigration policy is immoral. We base allowing people into our country upon a set of principles that violate the Bible.

 

First, you didn't answer all my questions...

Secondly, my statement in context is that we should not base our views on who comes into America on giving "human" preference to things like race, gender, or socio-economic level. I noted a verse in James but referenced ideas of Jesus and the poor. God is no respector of persons, the Bible says. Thus, I do not think it is right to base our immigration policies upon education, income, etc... but upon true issues. I began to say that I do think we need to limit immigration of those who would harm us. But not because we prefer only certain socio-economic people here.

 

Again, my argument is over the immoral aspect of our immigration laws. I can argue with you economically, but you have not offered an economic argument.

Secondly, I am not a fan of big companies but socialism is horrible. That is a discussion for another day, but I would love for you to outline the economic motivators and your thoughts on economic theories like Creative Destruction and how it relates to a socialist economy.