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Southern Seminary (SBTS) Turing Reformed

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges & Seminaries' started by Rhetorician, Feb 14, 2005.

  1. PatsFan

    PatsFan New Member

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    I'm ok with that label, ha, ha. To be honest with you, just using the label, "Calvinist" was a bit unsettling for me. Uhhh. You've set me free.
     
  2. Broadus

    Broadus Member

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    Alexander Campbell couldn't have said it better! [​IMG]

    Bill
     
  3. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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  4. PatsFan

    PatsFan New Member

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  5. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    ===

    Don't let us worry--God knows.
     
  6. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    I'm so glad that some of you know beyond a doubt the order of salvation.

    Since I can't find this order in Scripture, it is a relief to know that some of my brothers in Christ know exactly what it is.

    Imagine, having to go through life not knowing for sure whether or not the decree to elect came before the decree to have Jesus die. Whew!

    And to think Calvin thought it was inappropriate to delve too deeply into the mysteries of God and the counsel of his will. Ah, but what did Calvin know. We've got it all figured out.
     
  7. Broadus

    Broadus Member

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    Paul,

    There are matters that are important upon which we may not agree, but they are important nonetheless. None of us has a handle on everything, but thinking and discussing them is useful. And BTW, Calvin had a good bit to say about election and predestination (you have read his Institutes of the Christian Religion unabridged and not merely as part of some anthology, haven't you?), though it is debated whether he would have been supralapsarian or infralapsarian or neither.

    Your sarcasm is not well taken.

    Blessings,
    Bill
     
  8. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    In addition to the Institutes, Calvin also wrote a small treatise on predestination which I have read. I cannot provide particulars on it now as all my books are at the new home and I won't be there until 3-15. Berkouwer also has a top notch work on the subject.

    As election and decree and God's sovereignty and grace are Biblical topics, it would seem proper that they be studied. When something is seriously studied, strong opinions may be formed.

    I think that it is wise , though, to only affirm that the results of our study on some of these issues is just opinion . Perhaps our convictions are highly defensible, but still I think they are just largely opinion based on the coherence of our understanding of the decree with our over all system of belief and our best efforts to exegete the relevant Scriptures.
     
  9. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    Thanks UZTHD.

    That was my point, which apparently offended Broadus.

    We need to affirm what Scripture affirms. Sure we can speculate and theorize as to what we think the order of salvation is, but what I hear from most is dogmatic assertions about things that God has sovereignly withheld from revealing to us.
     
  10. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    ===

    I think I would take the position that it is OK to strongly think that one is correct about his/her soteriology and should be willing to layout the evidence for that. But IMO, adhering to the points of the TULIP are not among the several doctrines by which one's orthodoxy should be measured. I doubt Broadus will say that either.
     
  11. Broadus

    Broadus Member

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    UZThD,

    I agree. What I took from Paul33's earlier post was that this is unimportant and merely speculative. If that is not what Paul meant, I apologize. Some folks can be too dogmatic in attempting to understand the ways of the infinite God (a dogmatism which I do not recall from earlier posts in this thread), while others will say "I just believe the Bible." That statement essentially means nothing. Churches of Christ say the same thing and they are quite adamant in their opposition to Calvinism. Reformed folks are particular offended when others allege that they are following Calvin instead of the Bible. Both Arminians and Calvinists and everyone in between and outside claim to be following the Bible. But what do you understand the Bible to be teaching?

    Interestingly, some maintain that attempting to understand the order of salvation is unimportant because the Bible does not succinctly state the order. Keep in mind that opponents of the doctrine of the Trinity use the same argument.

    Blessings,
    Bill
     
  12. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    Broadus

    I agree. As said, I basically am a 5 point Calvinist. But I didn't mind at all one year, two semesters of grad work, reading every word that I could get that Arminius wrote.
     
  13. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    Broadus,

    My turn to apologize. I reread the posts and there really was a good spirit in the posts. I must have been "grouchy" about something else and transferred it here. :(

    Sorry. I love the discussion. I hate the exclusion and division that exists over not agreeing completely on the order of salvation.
     
  14. Broadus

    Broadus Member

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    Paul,

    Thanks, and apology gladly accepted. Like you, I think debate and discussion are beneficial when approached with the realization that none of us understands everything perfectly. That does not mean, of course, that we are wrong to be adamant if we are convincingly persuaded as to what Scripture teaches about something.

    For instance, concerning Calvinistic soteriology, I grew up in the Methodist church, a liberal one at that. Hardly the bastion of flaming Calvinism! Converted to Christ as an 18-year-old and soon thereafter became a Baptist. Only after 20+ years of study and struggle did I become convinced that Calvinistic soteriology is correct.

    That said, everyone who believes the Scriptures are inerrant and infallible and are our sole authority is not in agreement concerning the order of salvation. Discussion, however, is good as we seek to study and struggle and dig deeper into the Scriptures concerning what God has revealed.

    Again, Paul, thanks for your contribution.

    Blessings,
    Bill
     
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