Speaking in tongues

First off, oneness, that was a rather childish challenge I issued you--and yet, you responded. I had hoped that you would see it for the schoolyard "dare" it was....
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>YOu can call it gibbersh, but Paul said it was an unknown tongue and he said "I would that you all spake in tongues" "Forbid not to speak in tongues" "One that speaks in an unknown tongue speaks not to himself, but UNTO GOD"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And one who doesn't recognize the way tongues are used by the Oneness Pentecostal and other sects today as "gibberish" is denying the Scripture. Scripture, and therefore God, clearly tells us what the gift was and how it was used.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I wish you guys would study up on the corinthian Church and find out why Paul wrote the letter to them. He did not write them to tell them to stop speaking in tongues. He wrote them to tell them to get a little bit of order about themselves.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
"A little bit"? Fornication, revelry to the point of desecrating the Lord's Supper, emphasis of gifts of the spirit (including, and especially tongues) over love--I'd say that you just epitomized the gift of understatement.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I dont know what language I speak when i speak in an unknown tongue. That is why it is called an unknown tongue.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So am I to assume that you didn't ask your interpreter what language it was? Or did you only speak by/to yourself? In which case, if you were in church, did you ensure that you were silent, so as to not disrupt the rest of the congregation?
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Why can one not speak in tongues and magnify god? They spoke in an unknown tongue. They magnified God. Where is there a problem. Can they not do both?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Boy howdy, talk about avoiding the question. How did the people present know they were magnifying God if they were speaking in a tongue no one present could understand? THAT'S the problem, and if you can't see it, then you've put blinders on yourself, my friend.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>HMMMMMM.... IS PAUL SAYING THAT THE ONE SPEAKING IN TONGUES MAY BE ABLE TO INTERPRET? MAYBE SO....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
2 things: 1) You don't have to "shout" (use all caps); we can read just fine. If you have to raise your voice instead of reinforcing your point, then there's something wrong with your point.

2) Let me see...it's an unknown language, but I can interpret, so suddenly it's not unknown...my head is now spinning....
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>HE SAID IF HE PRAYS IN AN UNKNOWN TONGUE HIS SPIRIT IS PRAYING, BUT THE UNDERSTANDING IS UNFRUITFUL.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
He (Paul) also said: "I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue."

He (Paul) also said: "Tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not." (emphasis mine)

If you're a believer, oneness, what do you need tongues for?

 

I am not Catholic.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ONENESS:


Why can one not speak in tongues and magnify god? They spoke in an unknown tongue. They magnified God. Where is there a problem. Can they not do both?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They spoke in a language for a specific purpose. Speaking in gibberish that you do not understand is not magnifying God.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ONENESS:

Notice what Paul says.

LETHIM THAT SPEAKETH IN AN UNKNOWN TONGUE PRAY THAT HE MAY INTERPRET.

HMMMMMM.... IS PAUL SAYING THAT THE ONE SPEAKING IN TONGUES MAY BE ABLE TO INTERPRET? MAYBE SO....

HE SAID IF HE PRAYS IN AN UNKNOWN TONGUE HIS SPIRIT IS PRAYING, BUT THE UNDERSTANDING IS UNFRUITFUL.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, he is saying that you should interpret for the understanding.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>1 Corinthians 14:13
For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says.
14
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
15
So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind.
16
If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand[5] say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying?
17
You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified.
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I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.
19
But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.
20
Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults. NIV<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you are not interpreting then it is unfruitful and you should not be doing so.

The word Unknown does NOT mean a mysterious language of God. The word Unknown was added in the KJV. The word in the original texts is simply tongue. Not UNKNOWN tongue, not ANGELIC tongue, not MYSTERIOUS tongue, but tongue. The word tongue means a language. If it is a language that you can not interpret then it does NOT magnify God.

If you are using 1 Corinthians 13:1 as your basis for saying that angelic tongues really exist please show me scripturally where Paul moved mountains and offered his body to be burned. Paul was using illistrations to show that no matter how great the gift, without love it was nothing. He was not saying that he actually did any of those things, but that if he did, without love it will still be useless.

~Lorelei

 

Right on Lorelei! Here is an example:

Speaking in tongues: "Kellemes karácsonyi ünnepeket kivánok kedves mindannyiótoknak, és egy kegyelemmel teljes, boldog Új Esztendöt Istenben!"

Interpretation: Wishing you all a blessed Christmas Holiday Season and a New Year filled with grace and love in the Lord!

There are no other tongues, of which are not spoken languages of people living on the face of planet earth!

 

Which reminds me....

I posted (top of page 4, I think) that I KNOW the Holy Spirit has worked through me, Oneness; yet I've never spoken in tongues.

Don't need to do anything of the flesh, like you suggested, because I know God is working through me.

Yet, I've never spoken in tongues.

Whaddya think about them apples?

 

ONENESS, why do you bother?

BTW Don, I am still here. I just sit and read and thank God that I didn't reject His Word when it was revealed to me. It's a shame that you all DON'T want to understand. But, as long as there is breath in your bodies there is hope that you may see what is being said to all of you someday.

You and the others can make fun all you want, but it is plain to see that you wouldn't understand the truth if the Lord Himself came and told you in person.

As a matter of fact, He did say it in Isaiah 28:11-12..

11) For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12)To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: YET THEY WOULD NOT HEAR.

Like I said ONENESS, why bother? They just want someone to argue with them!

MEE

 

ONENESS, why do you bother?

BTW Don, I am still here. I just sit and read and thank God that I didn't reject His Word when it was revealed to me. It's a shame that you all DON'T want to understand. But, as long as there is breath in your bodies there is hope that you may see what is being said to all of you someday.

You and the others can make fun all you want, but it is plain to see that you wouldn't understand the truth if the Lord Himself came and told you in person.

As a matter of fact, He did say it in Isaiah 28:11-12..

11) For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12)To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: YET THEY WOULD NOT HEAR.

Like I said ONENESS, why bother? They just want someone to argue with them!

MEE

 

And yet, STILL my question goes unanswered....

MEE, no one's making fun of you. I apologize profusely if you got that impression. We just see you making a mistake, and wish to correct it.

I have absolute faith and trust in my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. I know He has worked a mighty work in my heart and in my life. I KNOW that God has used me, that the Holy Spirit has worked through me to affect and change the lives of others.

But I have never spoken in tongues. How do you feel about that?

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ONENESS:
*RUBBING MY BEEDS, RUBBING MY BEEDS, RUBBING MY BEEDS, RUBBING MY BEEDS, HAIL MARY PLEASE TELL GOD TO FORGIVE ME.....HAIL MARY, HAIL MARY, I HOPE THIS IS BETTER THAN ALL THAT "GIBBERISH". RUBBING MY BEEDS, RUBBING MY BEEDS,

*STRECHES ARMS OUT YAWNS AND WAKES UP* THANK GOD, IT WAS JUST A DREAM.

WHAT A CROCK

YOU GUYS NEED TO GET OUT OF ALL THAT POPE STUFF, GET INTO THE WORD OF GOD AND UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE READING. MAN I CANT BELIEVE WHAT YOU GUYS ARE SAYING......

SIGH

WELL GUYS THE BIBLE TELLS US TO WIPE THE DUST OFF OUR FEET AND MOVE ON. SO LOOK I DONT HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS AND NEITHER DO YOU. BUT I AM MOVEING ON. YOU CAN SIMPLY GIVE YOUR SELVES A HAND, AND CELEBRATE B/C YOU THINK YOU HAVE WON. WELL THATS OK. TRUTH WILL LAST FOREVER. AND WE THE UPC WILL STAND ON THAT TRUTH UNTIL THE END.

SORRY YOU GUYS FELL OFF AND STARTED RUBBING YOUR BEEDS AND SAYING YOUR CREEDS. AND SWINGING YOUR SMOKE. AND SAYING YOUR HAIL MARRYS AND SPRINKLING YOUR INFANTS AND YADDA YADDA YADDA.

I WILL PRAY FOR YOU

BRIAN<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Um.....that's beads with an "a" Pal.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MEE:
ONENESS, why do you bother?
I just sit and read and thank God that I didn't reject His Word when it was revealed to me. It's a shame that you all DON'T want to understand. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ONENESS and MEE:
Be careful it is not you that is rejecting the Word of God.

Mat.7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

"Speaking in tongues, propheysing in His name, doing wonderful works..." These are the signs gifts that ceased at the close of the first century. Now Jesus says, in the end times, beware of these false prophets who come with such signs. They are wolves in sheep's clothing. Jesus will say unto them, "Depart from me for I never knew you."

Almost every Charismatic I have ever met have put there experience above the Word of God. That is what you are doing--trusting in your experience, blaming others on this board that they do not understand because they have not experienced what you have experienced. I once had a person with similar beliefs as yours try to cast a demon out of me simply because I believed in tongues and he didn't. The ironic thing about that particular situation was that when challenged with the Word of God he was unable to find any Scriptural proof at all. He knew what verses in the Bible he wanted to show me, but he was so Biblical illiterate, that he couldn't find a single one--1Cor.14, Mark 16, Jude, and a host of others. He knew he had an experience, but he didn't know the Word. He didn't know the Saviour either. Having an experience doesn't guarantee that you are saved. It doesn't guarantee that you are filled with the Holy Spirit, or that your sins are forgiven. If you were to stand before God right now and He were to ask you why should I let you into my Heaven, what would you answer. Because I have had this experience of tongues?? I hope not. Think seriously about the above verses in Matthew, and about your position. If you are wrong, what then?
DHK

 

DHK writes:
If you were to stand before God right now and He were to ask you why should I let you into my Heaven, what would you answer. Because I have had this experience of tongues?? I hope not.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No, it would be because I have received His Spirit, which I might say that you are none of His without it. Speaking in tongues is not the Holy Ghost. It is the *EVIDENCE* that one has received the Holy Ghost. Also, that I was baptized in His name, which is Jesus Christ. Then He would say, "Welcome home my child."

This is what every child of God should be able to say, if asked by his Creator.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Don, I think you are asking a loaded question, but the above answers it very well.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

wishtolearn, as far as "BEEDS" spelled without the 'a' I think you got his message! Let's not be mean to one another!

MEE

 

Amen DHK!

Don, why do your questions always seem to go unanswered?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MEE:

Speaking in tongues is not the Holy Ghost. It is the *EVIDENCE* that one has received the Holy Ghost.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Show me the verse where it says tongues is the evidence please. Not a scripture saying that someone spoke in tongues when they were baptized, but the verse that says that tongues is indeed the evidence.

Hmm, but then how do you determine the difference between the tongues you speak and the tongues of other religions. Muhammad spoke in tongues as well I believe, but he wasn't a Christian. How do you tell the difference?

~Lorelei

 

I don't really know, Lorelei.

Good to see you back on the board. Lovely child you have!

MEE, no, it didn't answer it at all. Could you please increase my knowledge? Are you trying to say that I haven't been indwelt with the Holy Spirit because I haven't spoken in tongues? Even though I know, without doubt or reservation, otherwise?

Also, could you answer this while you're at it: How can tongues be the *EVIDENCE* of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit when Paul specifically told us that tongues are a sign for unbelievers? Why does a believer need "evidence" that the Holy Spirit has indwelt someone?

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MEE:
DHK writes:
If you were to stand before God right now and He were to ask you why should I let you into my Heaven, what would you answer. Because I have had this experience of tongues?? I hope not.

No, it would be because I have received His Spirit, which I might say that you are none of His without it. Speaking in tongues is not the Holy Ghost. It is the *EVIDENCE* that one has received the Holy Ghost. Also, that I was baptized in His name, which is Jesus Christ. Then He would say, "Welcome home my child."
This is what every child of God should be able to say, if asked by his Creator.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Based on the Word of God, and what you have said in your own testimony, I would question seriously if such a testimony could gain you entrance into Heaven. MEE and ONENESS, I know that if I were to die right now I would go straight to Heaven, and be immediately in the presence of Jesus, and be welcomed by Him. I know that beyond any shadow of a doubt. I have that assurance based on the Word of God, not on an experience, nor on anything that I have done. When I trusted Jesus Christ as my Saviour and came to Him as a guilty sinner, I asked Christ to come into my heart and save me. It was He and He alone that could save a sinner such as me. Baptism had no part and could play no part in salvation. The Bible teaches that salvation is a free gift. "The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life." (Rom.6:23). "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph.2:8,9).
If tongues (an experience), or baptism (a work--something I do), is part of my salvation, then salvation is no longer a gift is it? I have worked toward it. I have done something on my part. Whether it is baptism or good works or speaking in tongues, or whatever it is; if it is more than simply believing on the shed blood of Christ to make an atonement for our sins, then it is a work, and the Bible teaches, that that is not salvation. Salvation is all of grace. It comes from God. It was accomplished on the cross by Christ. When Christ called out in John 19:30, "It is finished," He meant that the work of salvation was completed. There was nothing more to do. There is nothing that you can do to add too what Christ has already done on the cross. In the light of what He has done for you on the cross, bearing your sin, suffering that awful penalty for you, to think that you can help out Jesus paying the penalty either for your own sins or for the sins of the world, by being baptized or by speaking in tongues, is absolutely ridiculous. I am saved by trusting in the finished work of Christ, and in that alone.

Acts 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
---Note the result of the filling of the Holy Spirit. The result was that they spoke the Word of God with boldness, not speaking in tongues. We need to be filled with the Spirit of God, in order that we might speak forth God's Word boldly in our witness for Him. Speaking in tongues is a non-issue, a gift that ceased at the end of the first century.
DHK

 

Speaking in tongues is a non-issue, a gift that ceased at the end of the first century.
DHK

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

DHK, you call yourself a *Missionary?*

All I can say is, "God help the people that come under your ministry."

I could sit here all day and try to explain things and you all still wouldn't understand. So why try? Don't try to use phycology on me to get me to talk! I won't tear into the Word just to debate with ones who don't really want to know the Bible, but just want to agrue.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ONENESS:
The blood of Christ is what remits our sins. For there is no remission without the shedding of Blood. Some how, some Way we must get that blood applied to our lives. How do we do that. (HINT: ACTS 2:38)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you are saying that water Baptism is the way we get the blood applied then will you please answer this. How can one receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit without water Baptism? They did in Acts chapter 10.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They received the Holy Ghost and even spoke in tongues yet the blood wasn't applied yet! Now how can the Holy Ghost enter a house that isnt' cleansed by the blood?????

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MEE:
I could sit here all day and try to explain things and you all still wouldn't understand. So why try? Don't try to use phycology on me to get me to talk! I won't tear into the Word just to debate with ones who don't really want to know the Bible, but just want to agrue<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe if you "tore" into the Word of God more often you would see the error of your ways. Why is it that you say that he is the one that doesn't know the Bible and yet you use no scripture, but only your experience, to say he is wrong?

I am still waiting for a Biblical explanation that tongues is the evidence of the Holy Spirit. Where does it differentiate between the evidence and the gift?

In Acts 8:26-40 the Enuch receives water Baptism and then is Philip is caught away by the Spirit of the Lord before the Eunuch had a chance to receive some "second" baptism and he never spoke in tongues. Now why would God take Philip away before he acutally "saved" the Eunuch? What was there for the Eunuch to rejoice about if his salvation was left un-finished? These scriptures also speak of conversions but never says they spoke in tongues. Acts 2:38-47, 4:1-4, 16:13-15, 16:31-34

I know you don't like to actually tear into the Word of God to find the answers, but I don't like to take your word for it, I will take God's.

~Lorelei

 

You're waiting for an explanation, Lorelei?

Shucks, I'm still waiting for an answer to my question!