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Featured Spiritual hearing...or the lack thereof

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Iconoclast, May 8, 2012.

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  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Hos,

    No...I can do it with any type of teaching, but to be honest Cals preach more meat as a rule....to my hearing anyway..... I sent you a PM...he answered my email...is going to send me the notes

    On sermonaudio I like;
    W.R.Downing
    Albert N Martin
    Geoff Thomas
    Paul Dowling
    Edward Donnely
    Paul Washer
    James White
    Greg Nichols
    Jim Savisito
    Sam Waldron
    John Macarthur
     
    #21 Iconoclast, May 11, 2012
  2. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    You CAN do it, but my impression is that you don't or you refuse to...I think you are missing out if that is the case....Especially about the C.S. Lewis thing...we can talk about that later, maybe in PM.

    With respect to the part I bolded: I must agree with you, Calvinism was a nearly dead idea 25-30 years ago....but the failure of non-Cal teaching to satisfy the need for some of the real meat of the word has, I think, contributed to a resurgence of Cal teaching. Generally speaking I do think that that is often the case. I believe that many people are drawn towards Calvinist teaching and embrace it, largely because they are sick of milk and the first ones to offer them meat are Calvinists....They may be wrong in their conclusions, but they cannot be blamed for being attuned to deeper teaching. This is, I think, especially true of your Y.R.R's. Not to worry...the non-Cals have recognized this failure and they are correcting it. :thumbsup::wavey:
     
    #22 HeirofSalvation, May 12, 2012
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Hos,

    I did speak with pastor Culver a few hours ago. He has an orthodox view of heaven, but as I suspected....he does not think we have the words to describe it.
    Also...he is going to send me 3 PDF files of the notes he made available to the class. He assured me there are many scriptures that he offered....but that to open them all during the sermon would have hindered what he was trying to focus on.... They were to numerous to list.

    This Pastor seemed very much to be the real deal.....I had to pretty much shut and and listen...lol. I will visit there next time I am in Denver.


    you are most likely correct with your observation here.
    i am just one person,and have learned what works for me....With any of these people I set aside......my prayer would be that God uses all of them as He will.....But for example....i will never read the "screwtape letters".....
    I have no interest, not even to be able to discuss them......that is just me.
    Pilgrims progress I did read through as Bunyon was very sound theologically and many sermons spoke about that work.

    I prefer doctrine.....doctrine that builds and expands based upon Jesus, and His commands to us. I have a working knowledge of other teachings and systems....but only so I can recognize error when i come across someone trying to present it.
    I do not always acknowledge the error...because I try to avoid being contentious......because I know by experience...that contentions are always being put forward.
    Even with this sermon...I was not offering it so much to add to the cal/arm discussion...as much as I thought pastor Culver opens up good ideas for meditation and study.....after speaking with him directly...I am confident that he is a solid Pastor who labours in the word and doctrine. Any question I asked Him, he was right on it:thumbsup:

    Again...there is an expression...jack of all trades...master of none....
    I at this point in life attempt to narrow my focus on what will help equip me to better serve our Lord.
     
    #23 Iconoclast, May 12, 2012
  4. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    Good, Hopefully, he merely mispoke (a legit possibility) when he said "Heaven is not a "place" per se. If that was simply human frailty/failure then it is understandable...Let us assume the best, that he merely mispoke then.

    OH! Forsooth!!! And in only the prologue of the book he makes this Brilliant statement!! (as I cannot readily fetch one of my 3 personal copies, I will paraphrase)

    "There are two errors men might possibly make with demons, the one is to deny their existence, the other, is to take an unnatural and unhealthy interest in them. And the Devil will accept either the materialist or the sorceror with equal relish"

    (my paraphrase).

    Again....Do you not see circularity??? I mean by that, a circular argument: the assumption that your present belief is true....and therefore the necessary falsehood of another....which is proven...only by your previous assumption.

    You do realize that a non-Cal might reasonably feel that they are merely responding to precisely the same sentiments right?

    This made me chuckle...because you are, I think, as effective at being "non-contentious" as I am, which is to say, not very much...:laugh: It is something to be worked on on both of our parts.

    Uh, Ya, you are simply a horrible human being if you don't. I might be mistaken...but last I heard...the two best selling books in the English language were, in decending order:
    1.) The Bible
    2.) Pilgrim's Progress

    An apprecciable sentiment, but, it again belies a certain circularity to your belief system...No?
     
    #24 HeirofSalvation, May 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2012
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Not to me it does'nt. Scripture says this is the way...walk in it. There are many direct commands that are clear. When someone sees the absoluteness of the sovereignty of God....they move and think with a purpose....anyone who is not moving forward does not make it.....anyman who puts his hand to the plow,and looks back...is not fit for the kingdom...remember Lot's wife.
     
    #25 Iconoclast, May 13, 2012
  6. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Hebrews 5 :
    11 We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand. 12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.



    Solid food, meat isn't just a certain teaching that others don't accept, but putting into practice righteousness that we learned from Christ into action.



    "There is King Jesus marching at the head of his troops; and can it be that some of you, who profess to be his followers, are on the other side; that professing to be Christ's you are lighting in the ranks of the enemy—carrying the baggage of Satan and wearing the uniform of hell, when you profess to be soldiers of Christ? I know there are such here: God forgive them! God spare them; and may the deserters yet come back, even though they come back in the chains of conviction! May they come back and be saved! O brethren and sisters, there are enough to destroy souls without us—enough to extend the kingdom of Satan without our helping him. "Come out from among them; touch not the unclean thing; be ye separate." Church of God! awake, awake, awake to the salvation of men! Sleep no longer, begin to pray, to wrestle, to travail in birth; be more holy, more consistent, more strict, more solemn in thy deportment! Begin, O soldiers of Christ, to be more true to your colors, and as surely as the time shall come when the church shall thus be reformed and revived, to surely shall the King come into our midst, and we shall march on to certain victory, trampling down our enemies, and getting to our King many crowns, through many victories achieved."

    C.H. Spurgeon
     
    #26 psalms109:31, May 13, 2012
  7. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

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    Iconoclast, you posted...

    I disagree. There is just as much "meat" in non-cal teaching as there is in cal teaching.

    The primary differance is that there is so much BAD meat from the Cal camp. Much more than the non-cals.
     
    #27 Alive in Christ, May 14, 2012
  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    AIC,

    Not even close.What you might be thinking of is some who have seminars on self esteem, and tolerance,and diversity....but this is not to be confused with expository preaching. Many a non cal cannot bear it...that is why you see the pragmatic ....."seeker friendly" ministries......trying to be relevant and, stylish, rather than biblical,popping up everywhere.
    That you do not grasp cal teaching is why you malign it.....but when push comes to shove....you know it is true:thumbsup:

    AIC....if you contend that there is so much "bad meat" in the cal camp....it would be easy for you to give five clear specific examples that we could learn about.
     
    #28 Iconoclast, May 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2012
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    :thumbsup::wavey::thumbsup:
     
    #29 Iconoclast, May 14, 2012
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Hos......
    This might shed more light on where he got the teaching from:thumbsup:

    here are the verses given out to those in the class,that the teaching was based on;
    Like Elisha’s servant and Christ’s
    hearers, we have to be given eyes to see and ears to hear (cf. 2 Kings 6:1-17; John 10:22-27).

    (cf. Ezekiel 1:4-28, 8:1-4, 10:1-22).

    (cf. Ezekiel 1; Revelation
    4:1-6, 21:9-21).
    (cf. Isaiah 6:1-3, 57:15)
    And because God dwells in heaven, it is the place from which He exercises the
    various aspects of His rule over His creation. Thus heaven is portrayed in the
    imagery of a temple and throne room (Psalm 11:1-4, 103:19; Isaiah 6:1-4, 66:1;
    Ezekiel 1:26-28, 10:1-5; Daniel 7:1-10; Revelation 21:22-22:1-2; etc.).

    In keeping with heaven’s status as God’s habitation, the Bible uses the language
    of obscurity and inaccessibility to describe it. It is a realm obscured from human
    sight and removed from human access. Significantly, God must grant men both
    the sight of it and entrance into it (cf. God’s presence at Sinai and the Holy of
    Holies with Acts 7:54-56; Hebrews 11:8-16; Revelation 4:1, 15:5, 19:11, 21:25ff).
    (Exodus 3:1-2, 24:1-13; cf. 1 Kings 19:1-8).
    (Isaiah 66:20; Jeremiah 3:17; Micah 4:1-2). Jerusalem is so
    closely linked with the “mount of God” that the terms are sometimes used synonymously
    (ref. Isaiah 37:32, 66:20; Daniel 9:16; Joel 2:32, 3:17; Zechariah 8:3).
    (cf. Genesis 11:1-4, 12:8, 22:1-2; Exodus 3:1-12; Numbers
    22:39-41, 33:51-52; 2 Chronicles 33:11-15; Ezekiel 6:13; etc.; cf. also John 4:19-20).
    Though God dwells in a “high and holy place,” He is not remote from men, but
    “descends” to encounter them in the reality of their world and existence (Isaiah 57:15).
    So He did on Mount Ararat (Genesis 8:1-22), on the mount in the land of Moriah
    (Genesis 22:1ff), on Mount Sinai (Horeb) with Moses and the sons of Israel, and later on
    Mount Zion in Jerusalem. So also the prophets spoke of the day of the Lord’s coming
    when He would descend on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:1-4) and, as the result of
    His work of purging and renewal, His holy mountain would encompass the entire earth
    (Daniel 2:24-35). In that day, Jerusalem – the mount of God – was to be the habitation of
    all the nations (cf. Isaiah 11:9-10, 25:1-10, 56:1-8, 66:20 with Revelation 21:1ff).
    2. Eden
    Furthermore, the language and imagery of Eden are employed and developed
    throughout the Scripture in reference to appointed places where God dwells with
    His people. So it was with Canaan (cf. Exodus 3:8 and Joel 2:1-3 with Exodus
    15:11-17, 25:1-8) and the temple (1 Kings 6:18ff; 7:18ff), and so it is with the
    new creation (Isaiah 4:2-6, 51:3, 65:13-25, 66:18ff; Jeremiah 31:1-12; Ezekiel
    36:33-36; Hosea 2:14-23; Amos 9:11-15; cf. Revelation 21:1-3 with 22:1-19).


    There are plenty more......but this will give you the idea now:laugh::laugh:
    he might have gotten some of his ideas from these verses....not philosophy.
     
    #30 Iconoclast, May 15, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 15, 2012
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    yes i am ...all philosophy that is carnal and against scriptural revelation. In this message pastor culver demonstrates how the carnal philosophers in athens missed the true and living God. he demonstrates the fatal flaw of all carnal philosophy,and idolatry. Still waiting for you to listen between the 20-33 minute mark.....and respond...stop being a lazy slug WD:laugh:
     
    #31 Iconoclast, May 15, 2012
  12. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Not lazy...I've since taken your approach of only surrounding myself and listening to those whose theology I agree with :laugh:
     
    #32 webdog, May 15, 2012
  13. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
    #33 quantumfaith, May 15, 2012
  14. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Well, it does make life more peaceful. :love2:
     
    #34 Amy.G, May 15, 2012
  15. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Good one....:laugh::thumbsup::wavey: Thing is i thought you would agree with him...
     
    #35 Iconoclast, May 16, 2012
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