Spurgeon On Calvinism Definite Atonement

[MB]

What in the world do you think draw means?

3. To bring by compulsion; to cause to come. A call does not cause anyone to come they either do or don't

Logical error. Trinity isn't in the Bible either but I assume you believe there is a Trinity, yes?

True but the trinity is described in the Bible. Sovereign is not


Cannot name their doctrines properly? Means something else according to me? Preserving grace means work grace? How do you figure that?[/QUOTE]
2. In theology, continuance in a state of grace to a state of glory; sometimes called final perseverance.
2. Appropriately, the free unmerited love and favor of God, the spring and source of all the benefits men receive from him.
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MB

 

[Reformed1689]

3. To bring by compulsion; to cause to come. A call does not cause anyone to come they either do or don't

And what do you think Irresistible grace means? What is the effectual call? Because it is exactly the same definition for draw that you just gave.

True but the trinity is described in the Bible. Sovereign is not

I would argue that it actually is but this clearly shows you have a double standard.

2. In theology, continuance in a state of grace to a state of glory; sometimes called final perseverance.
2. Appropriately, the free unmerited love and favor of God, the spring and source of all the benefits men receive from him.
Buy a dictionary

I have no idea what in the world you are trying to say here.

 

[Reformed1689]

What;s the matter can't you debunk the fact that the word Sovereign isn't in scripture nor is it's description
Election couldn't be Sovereign because it isn't an entity. It's an action of God.

And there again is your double standard. Trinity isn't in the Bible either.

 

[SovereignGrace]

And what do you think Irresistible grace means? What is the effectual call? Because it is exactly the same definition for draw that you just gave.



I would argue that it actually is but this clearly shows you have a double standard.



I have no idea what in the world you are trying to say here.

He said sovereign election is not found in the Bible. Soooo, election is God choosing ppl. If election is not in the Bible, many He never chose will be with Him for eternity. Let that sink in.

Someone’s left the reservation.

 

[Reformed1689]

He said sovereign election is not found in the Bible. Soooo, election is God choosing ppl. If election is not in the Bible, many He never chose will be with Him for eternity. Let that sink in.

Someone’s left the reservation.

Considering the term "elect" is in the Scripture dozens of times...

 

[SovereignGrace]

Considering the term "elect" is in the Scripture dozens of times...

But they elected themselves.

#Keepup

 

[Martin Marprelate]

There is not one Gentile in scripture that is ever called elect.

Try 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14.

 

[MB]

Try 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14.

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
Election is not mentioned. . When a lost person hears the gospel and they believe it they are called to come to Christ. This is why I believe the gospel is called the gospel of our Salvation.
We are chosen but I see election as being God's chosen people. And we don't know these weren't Jews because Paul preached in synagogues.Just like today Gentiles don't usually go to synagogues
MB

 

[Martin Marprelate]

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
Election is not mentioned. . When a lost person hears the gospel and they believe it they are called to come to Christ. This is why I believe the gospel is called the gospel of our Salvation.
MB

'......because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation.......' What do you think election is if it's not choosing? God chose the Thessalonian Christians for salvation from before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4) and gave them to Christ, who in due time redeemed them from death and hell by paying the full penalty that was due for their sins (Ephesians 1:6-7). The Holy Spirit then drew them to Christ through the preaching of the Gospel, and sealed them for the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13)
However, if you want another Gentile church, try Colosse: 'Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies.......etc.' (Colossians 3:12).

 

[Reformed1689]

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
Election is not mentioned. . When a lost person hears the gospel and they believe it they are called to come to Christ. This is why I believe the gospel is called the gospel of our Salvation.
We are chosen but I see election as being God's chosen people. And we don't know these weren't Jews because Paul preached in synagogues.Just like today Gentiles don't usually go to synagogues
MB

You underlined chosen which confuses me because that is what election is.

 

[Yeshua1]

God was not angry with mankind. That's the pagan gods who needed to be appeased. Sin is a sickness, not a crime. Mankind ate the forbidden fruit, we cursed ourselves. Jesus is the tree of life. He offers the cure. " and the leaves shall be the healing of the nations". What do you think communion is?
The church is a hospital. Christ is the great physician. The priest or pastors are doctors. The deacons are nurses. The songs, prayers, and scripture reading are therapy. The communion is medicine.
Forensic salvation sucks. I like God's spiritual healthcare plan.

The wrath of God abides forever upon those who deny that Jesus is the Lord!

 

[Yeshua1]

'......because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation.......' What do you think election is if it's not choosing? God chose the Thessalonian Christians for salvation from before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4) and gave them to Christ, who in due time redeemed them from death and hell by paying the full penalty that was due for their sins (Ephesians 1:6-7). The Holy Spirit then drew them to Christ through the preaching of the Gospel, and sealed them for the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13)
However, if you want another Gentile church, try Colosse: 'Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies.......etc.' (Colossians 3:12).

God did the choosing before salvation, while we were yet sinners, not after we accepted Jesus ourselves!

 

[Reformed1689]

God did the choosing before salvation, while we were yet sinners, not after we accepted Jesus ourselves!

Before the foundation of the world.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

We are chosen but I see election as being God's chosen people. And we don't know these weren't Jews because Paul preached in synagogues.Just like today Gentiles don't usually go to synagogues

MB, please go to Acts 17, where you will see that there were both Jews and 'a great multitude of devout Greeks' (v.4) in the synagogue in Thessalonica who believed. Also, if you look at 1 Thessalonians 1:9, you will see that the Thessalonian Christians had 'turned from idols' which was something that Jews could not do. The Thessalonian church was therefore largely Gentile, probably with a few Jews in it.

 

[MB]

You underlined chosen which confuses me because that is what election is.

This is because we do not have the same doctrines. I believe Gentiles are chosen because it separates us from the Jews. The Jews are elected God's chosen People. This is corporate. We have in a way been chose for a different reason. Salvation. Paul used both terms Chosen and elected
2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

Before the foundation of the world.

Based upon hi will period, and nothing that He would see is un or us ever doing!

 

[MB]

MB, please go to Acts 17, where you will see that there were both Jews and 'a great multitude of devout Greeks' (v.4) in the synagogue in Thessalonica who believed. Also, if you look at 1 Thessalonians 1:9, you will see that the Thessalonian Christians had 'turned from idols' which was something that Jews could not do. The Thessalonian church was therefore largely Gentile, probably with a few Jews in it.

Amphipolis Is where Paul is in acts.
This below is the only way I can explain it. It may not make sense to you
However as I've told others I do not see the election of the Jews and the choosing of Gentiles as the same things. The Jews being elected corporately and Gentiles chosen for Salvation They are two different things and I treat them as such. To me when someone says they are elect this places them on the same ground as the Jews. I see being chosen, as Christ died for the whole world. You see it as Christ died for the elect only and call your selves elect. I know you'll say they mean the same thing. In one way they do but you have to admit they are different things.
MB

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Amphipolis Is where Paul is in acts.

Oh boy! Acts 17:1. 'Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews.' He came to Thessalonica, not Amphipolis.

Most synagogues at that time had some Greeks in them. These were people who could no longer believe in the old Greek deities like Zeus and Apollo. They were not converts but they had a special section of the synagogue given to them to sit and they heard the preaching. In the N.T., they are called 'God-fearers' (Acts 10:2; 13:16), God-worshippers' (Acts 16:14) or just 'devout' (Acts 17:4). You can see from Acts 14:1 that there was 'a great multitude' of both Jews and Greeks in Iconium who believed.

This below is the only way I can explain it. It may not make sense to you
However as I've told others I do not see the election of the Jews and the choosing of Gentiles as the same things. The Jews being elected corporately and Gentiles chosen for Salvation They are two different things and I treat them as such. To me when someone says they are elect this places them on the same ground as the Jews. I see being chosen, as Christ died for the whole world. You see it as Christ died for the elect only and call your selves elect. I know you'll say they mean the same thing. In one way they do but you have to admit they are different things.
MB

I understand that is what you believe, but it is entirely wrong. I have shown you that the believers in Thessalonica were mostly Gentile, which is what you would expect in a Greek city, yet Paul still writes 2 Thes. 2:13. As our dear brother Tom Cassidy used to say, I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. Everyone who believes in Christ has been chosen by God in eternity past and called effectually in time. There is now no difference between Jew and Gentile (John 10:16; Romans 3:29; Galatians 3:28; Ephesians 2:11-22 (especially vs. 16-18); Philippians 3:3; Colossians 3:11).

 

[Reformed1689]

We have in a way been chose for a different reason. Salvation. Paul used both terms Chosen and elected

Yes, he uses them interchangeably. They are the same thing. Those chosen are the elect.

 

[MB]

Oh boy! Acts 17:1. 'Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews.' He came to Thessalonica, not Amphipolis.

Most synagogues at that time had some Greeks in them. These were people who could no longer believe in the old Greek deities like Zeus and Apollo. They were not converts but they had a special section of the synagogue given to them to sit and they heard the preaching. In the N.T., they are called 'God-fearers' (Acts 10:2; 13:16), God-worshippers' (Acts 16:14) or just 'devout' (Acts 17:4). You can see from Acts 14:1 that there was 'a great multitude' of both Jews and Greeks in Iconium who believed.

I understand that is what you believe, but it is entirely wrong. I have shown you that the believers in Thessalonica were mostly Gentile, which is what you would expect in a Greek city, yet Paul still writes 2 Thes. 2:13. As our dear brother Tom Cassidy used to say, I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. Everyone who believes in Christ has been chosen by God in eternity past and called effectually in time. There is now no difference between Jew and Gentile (John 10:16; Romans 3:29; Galatians 3:28; Ephesians 2:11-22 (especially vs. 16-18); Philippians 3:3; Colossians 3:11).

I believe what you believe is entirely wrong as well. I believe Calvinism is fatalism, because you believe man has no say in His Salvation It's his fate to be saved. The elect Jews can reject Christ so can everyone else but this fact shows that man can and often does choose to rebel against God. Remember you posted.
"There is now no difference between Jew and Gentile" so do all Jews get saved? I don't believe so because most reject Christ. You cannot be saved and reject Christ. Christ is the only way.

Gentiles must be chosen cooperatively as well If election and being chosen are the same thing. This is only logical. Yet Calvinist say no and then claim individual election which makes it a choice of God by preference.If God chooses individually it has to be by preference. This can't be either because God is not a respecter of men. Yet individual election is still by preference,
.I believe God choose the world the whole world. Jn 3:16 This not to say all will be saved but can be which is why we preach the gospel not knowing if any will be saved.
MB