Spurgeon on Limited (Efficacious) Atonement

I see now that Spurgeon said, "Free will carried many a soul to hell, but never a soul to heaven."

Let me withdraw my comment about having respect for this preacher. I believe he was a fool!

I wonder if there are any others here who think that reformed beliefs are necessary for salvation?

 

Maybe you are not familiar with the Word of God. Your latest comment is sinful and there's a warning against that kind of language.

Who says Reformed beliefs are necessary for salvation?! The Reformed certainly don't say that.

 

1 Corinthians 9:27
No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

Following God by His word is not our will, but it is His. His word goes against our will as for us to beat our own body into submission.

Proverbs 3:
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;

6 in all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make your paths straight. [Or will direct your paths]

If we were living by free will we would be doing evil, but it cost the blood of Jesus to walk the path we walk, it is not free at all

 

To quote you from another thread, "And you depend too much on the KJV wording to establish your points."

The meaning of "fool" in the bible is not the same as it is today.

Who says Reformed beliefs are necessary for salvation?! The Reformed certainly don't say that.[/QUOTE]

Again, to quote Spurgeon, "Free will carried many a soul to hell, but never a soul to heaven." This surely implies that those who believe in free will are not saved. Thus, the adjective, "fool."

 

Again, to quote Spurgeon, "Free will carried many a soul to hell, but never a soul to heaven." This surely implies that those who believe in free will are not saved. Thus, the adjective, "fool."[/QUOTE]

No wonder you read scripture the way you do if you can't see what Spurgeon is saying here. It's obvious that you dont' understand the reformed view of free will. Let me break it down for you: Unregenerate man has a free will to sin...thus his "free will" only has the power to damn him.

 

Nonsense. If you must sin by rejecting God and have no other option you are not free. This shows the ridiculous extremes people will go to to rationalize their unscriptural doctrine. Common sense out the window!

John 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Jesus said any man can will to do God's will, not just some.

 

feel the same here, and believe the same.
The blood of the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world, and which flowed physically at Calvary, is effective and efficacious only for those for whom the blood was intended.
If God had not elected any unto salvation, who did not deserve that act of mercy from God, anyway, there will be no Christ to come, no types and shadows in the Old Testament of the atonement, and no Scripture at all recorded.
Every man from Adam to the last man before the Great White Throne judgment will be condemned to eternal damnation, notwithstanding any religion that religious unrigheous mankind may think up just like Cain who offered the fruit of the ground.

 

~C.H. Spurgeon

"I would rather believe a limited atonement that is efficacious for all men for whom it was intended, than a universal atonement that is not efficacious for anybody, except the will of men be added to it." ~C.H. Spurgeon (Volume 4, 1858, New Park Street Pulpit, pg 70)

“I do not think I differ from any of my Hyper-Calvinistic brethren in what I do believe, but I differ from them in what they do not believe. I do not hold any less than they do, but I hold a little more, and I think, a little more of the truth revealed in the Scriptures. Not only are there a few cardinal doctrines, by which we can steer our ship North, South, East, or West, but as we study the Word, we shall begin to learn something about the North-west and North-east, and all else that lies between the four cardinal points. The system of truth revealed in the Scriptures is not simply one straight line, but two; and no man will ever get a right view of the gospel until he knows how to look at the two lines at once. For instance, I read in one Book of the Bible, “The Spirit and the Bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take of the water of life freely.” Yet I am taught, in another part of the same inspired Word, that “it is not of him that willeth, or of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.” I see, in one place, God in providence presiding over all, and yet I see, and I cannot help seeing, that man acts as he pleases, and that God has left his actions, in a great measure, to his own free-will. Now, if I were to declare that man was so free to act that there was no control of God over his actions, I should be driven very near to atheism; and if, on the other hand, I should declare that God so over-rules all things that man is not free enough to be responsible, I should be driven at once to Antinomianism or fatalism. That God predestines, and yet that man is responsible, are two facts that few can see clearly. They are believed to be inconsistent and contradictory to each other. If, then, I find in one part of the Bible that everything is foreordained, that is true; and I find, in another Scripture, that man is responsible for all his actions, that is true; and it is only my folly that leads me to imagine that these two truths can ever contradict each other. I do not believe they can ever be welded into one upon any earthly anvil, but they certainly shall be one in eternity. They are two lines that are so nearly parallel, that the human mind which pursues them farthest will never discover that they converge, but they do converge, and they will meet somewhere in eternity, close to the throne of God, whence all truth doth spring.”

 

Winman

It is you who cannot understand what Scripture teaches about Salvation. You are confusing the act of Regeneration with the whole of Salvation. That is the reason I have posted on this Forum, for your edification, the number of events that constitute Salvation. I last presented the necessity faith and repentence in conversion [post #7]:

In my post #13 I stated:

This post prompted you to again totally misrepresent the truth of Sovereign Grace. So you are either lying or totally ignorant of the Doctrine of Sovereign Grace.

In my response in post #15 I wrote:

Which once again prompted the following ridiculous response.

So I will once again repeat:

I will close with the following Scripture which clearly shows to those who are not totally enamored of their own concept of free will that Salvation is the work of GOD, not man.

Ephesians 1:3-6

3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

It is GOD who chose us before the foundation of the world and made us accepted in the beloved.

 

Spurgeon was right. It's called compatibilism.

 

You are misinterpreting what Spurgeon said. There is a difference between free will and the belief or teaching of free will. He was merely making a statement in line with the idea of Total Depravity, that man left to himself would never come to salvation; that God Himself must effectually intervene. I agree with him. Man's "free will" ultimately leads him to hell. God must save man from his "free will" with grace and mercy. Man is completely and freely responsible for going to hell. God is completely responsible for the fact that anyone goes to heaven.

He was not saying that the belief in (libertarian) free will sends people to hell.

 

Thank you for explaining. I retract my statement about Spurgeon being a fool. I've always liked Spurgeon although I do disagree with his Calvinistic beliefs. When I read the quote in question it did upset me greatly. I overreacted!

 

Old Regular, I have not misrepresented you. The doctrine you yourself posted said Regeneration was the initial act that takes place in salvation (you said election). The information you yourself posted said that this regeneration is the same as being born again, being made spiritually alive, and saved.

I am not saying you do not believe that a person must believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. What I have said it that you make it secondary.

And it is. For unless you are first regenerated, you cannot possibly believe the gospel by your doctrine. You have rendered the gospel powerless, it is dependent on regeneration.

Jesus said you can only come to the Father through him.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

You do not seem to grasp how important order is in scripture. According to Jesus, you must first come to him before you can come to the Father.

The scriptures show:

Sinner -----> Jesus -----> Father

But you teach

Father -----> Regenerates sinner -----> Jesus

This is error plain and simple.

You yourself said salvation really begins with the Father electing a man unconditionally. You have said faith in Christ is not necessary for this. Then you believe the Father regenerates a man, and that only after regeneration does a man have the desire or ability to come to Christ.

But this is unscriptural. Jesus said you have to come to him before you can come to the Father.

So, the order is very important, your doctrine has the order all wrong.

 

Winman

Why not comment on the Scripture I presented and present again instead of spewing that same old harangue???

 

Very well.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

God the Father has made one way, and one way only to approach him. You must be "in Christ". You cannot be "in Christ" unless you believe on him.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

The Father did not elect you outside of Christ as you teach. You must be "in Christ" to be the elect. You must come to Christ before you can come to the Father. This is exactly what verse 4 is saying if you read it carefully. It says "as he has chosen us in him" . Being elect is conditional, you must be in Jesus to be chosen. You won't accept it, but that is exactly what this verse is saying.

Your doctrine teaches that a man is elected outside of Christ and is then regenerated by the Father to be enabled to come to Christ. It is the reverse of what the scriptures say.

You conveniently overlook the phrases "in Christ" in vs. 3, "in him" in vs. 4, "by Jesus Christ" in vs. 5, and "in the beloved" (Jesus) in vs 6. Not a good idea.

 

Winman I have stated numerous times that those who believe that Scripture teaches the Doctrine of the Sovereign Grace of GOD in Salvation believe that one must have faith in Jesus Christ. In my post #7 I stated the following:

So you see Winman you are totally misrepresenting what I have said on this Forum. I say very clearly above [even a child could understand] that Faith and Repentance are required in Salvation. What is worse you totally, and I believe maliciously, misrepresent what the Doctrine of Sovereign Grace teaches.

Winman, can you show where anyone who believes in Sovereign Grace has ever said that there is any way to GOD except through Jesus Christ. In fact in my post # 13 I stated the following:

Perhaps I am making a serious mistake in thinking that you can understand plain English. There is nothing obscure in the above Scripture, that is, unless one has decided to maliciously misrepresent what is being taught and also maliciously lie about what I have said on this Forum. Can't you understand that there is no Salvation for anyone except through the atoning death of Jesus Christ. Don't you understand that in the mind of the Triune Godhead the death of Jesus Christ occurred before the foundation of the world. Revelation 13:8 tells us:

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

First, Winman, your statement that election is conditional is completly false. The passage states that {GOD the Father} hath chosen us in him{JesusChrist} according to the good pleasure of his{GOD the Father's} will. There is nothing conditional about election other than it requires the death of Jesus Christ to atone for the sins of those whom the Father has chosen before the foundation of the world.

Second, Winman, you are lying when you say that my doctrine teaches that man is elected outside of Jesus Christ. I did not conveniently overlook anything. As I said above there is no Salvation outside of the death of Jesus Christ. Don't you have any idea at all as to why I asked you to comment on the passage from Ephesians?

1. It is because this passage clearly says That God the Father Chose us in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world.

2. It says that God the Father predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself.

3. It says that God the Father [not man] made us accepted in the beloved [Jesus Christ].

4. All this before the foundation of the world and according to the good pleasure of his will.

I am going to post this passage again with names added so perhaps you can understand what it teaches,

You see this passage of Scripture teaches clearly that Salvation is all of GOD and not of Winman regardless of what your huge ego teaches!

I have made it clear on numerous occasions that you are misrepresenting [to put it politely] what I and all those who hold to the doctrine of Sovereign Grace have posted on this Forum and believe about Salvation. I frankly do not understand why others who believe as I do have not responded to your malicious characterization of their beliefs.

 

Winman

It is always dangerous to take quotes out of context as you so frequently do. You should read the entire sermon by Spurgeon. In the section I post below and, which you referenced, pay particular attention to the sections highlighted in green and blue. Finally note particularly the remarks by Spurgeon's highlighted in red because they describe your self righteousness perfectly.

http://www.biblebb.com/files/spurgeon/0531.htm

 

Amen Jon-Marc.