Standards of Dress

Bro. Bill,

Good insights, my friend. I disagree somewhat, to the extent some of the ideas people have on dress are taken. For instance, someone earlier on this thread mentioned one could not participate in choir/special music at their church if not dressed in a particular manner.

I was once of this opinion as well. Born and raised at First Baptist Church in Lawton, OK, I was used to seeing EVERYONE dressed the same way (coat and tie, long dress, hose, etc.). It wasn't until the past couple of years have I been exposed to churches that did not put as much emphasis on dress. Respectfullness and decency was emphasized, not style.

Anyway, I have personally now changed my thinking. To me, and I think one can back it up Biblically, the successful Christian life is ALMOST (with a couple of exceptions) one in which the inward nature of ourselves is the thing almost completely concentrated and on and dealt with, not the outward. For years, the thing I would be most concerned about on Sunday mornings was getting myself presentable in a suit and tie, making sure the car was washed, the family equally good lookin, and I also found myself at church critiquing what others were wearing. Finally, the Holy Spirit convicted me that these were not the things that were supposed to occupy my mind on the Lord's day.

THe more I thought about it, the things which are to occupy my mind on the Lord's day are the same things which should occpuy my mind every other day during my morning quiet time: what does the Lord have to tell me today, and what areas can I serve Him and have Him work in me? If we as individuals and congregations are in the business of setting dress codes (other than the common sense stuff), dictating music style, etc., then the true work of the church, which is empowering the saints to do the work of the Lord, is lost.

I am currently going through the 5 week membership class at our new church, and things such as dress code, musical style, etc., haven't come up once. Yet, this is a church which has grown to 2,000 attenders each week, with about 75% of them serving this church in some capacity or another. There is a traditional service at 8:30 (attended by only about 50 people, mostly senior citizens) and two contemporary services. For the individual above who stated having separate services is divicive, I couldn't disagree more. I believe it alleviates any potential conflict about style by separating them.

There are just my two cents...

 

This silly issue pops up occasionally on these boards. There's no mistake; when people "dress up" they are calling attention to themselves and trying to impress people If you go to bed, then remember a matter that merits prayer, do you get up and get dressed in you "best" to pray that prayer? If not, that is am admission that you know God does not require such a thing.

 

Great point, Alcott. That's another thought I also had...if dressing in one's best to present before the Lord on Sunday is required, then it should be in the wee hours of the morning in our quiet time. But, of course, it's not required.

I think many people feel the local church building is somehow a sacred place, divinely inhabited by God. However, it is only inhabited by God because his saints dwell there a few times per week. In my opinion, my home on Summer Grace Street in Colorado Springs, Colorado is just as inhabited by the Lord as the Pulpit Rock Church on Austin Bluffs Parkway.

Either way, the only code God requires is that of the condition of one's heart - pure.

 

Remember what Jesus called the Pharisees?

 

It is interesting how if someone shares their convictions regarding a certain issue on this board, how quickly the inference to silliness, pharisee, etc., are quickly brought up. Though I may disagree with someone's personal convictions (and there are some that I disagree with), who am I to question the ligitimacy of the work of the Holy Spirit in that person's life? Personally, I will consider myself the least of all of you until proven wrong, and believe me, you will not be able to do that until I have had the opportunity to personally fellowship with you. This post is not intended to offend anyone, and especially not to question anyone's 'salvation'; however, if one's local church believes one way, and that way is not in agreement with your convictions, are we edifying the brothers and sisters to infer such characteristics as has been stated in some of the posts on this board?

 

Since when does the pastor not have the authority to make requirements on who can and cannot fill certain positions in the church he is responsible and will give an account for at the Judgement Seat of Christ?

Aren't churches autonomous and self-governing? When it comes to dress we ARE to set the standards, or let a bunch of liberals demand their "RIGHTS" ON HOW they DRESS TVER-RIDE AUTHORITY

 

Well, IMO - when the pastor buys all my clothes, then he can tell me how to dress. I have been thundered at by pastors for not dressin right more than once. Yet, not one of those pastors offered me a suit or anything else. Imagine that.

 

So, are you saying that the Pastor in the local church does not have the authority to set the standards (i.e., tell you what is acceptable dress)?

 

I've never seen a preacher authoritatively, through words, set any dress standards, rather by example. I have seen others in the church pull people aside to tell them that their dress is unappropriate.

 

God already set the standards - MODESTY. To add to that (suit and tie) is pharisaical.

 

I was told the story of a woman who was told by some other ladies that she should wear makeup. The lady was poor and because of that felt out of place. The pastor found out and told one of the ladies that at one time only prostitutes wore makeup. We must be very careful to major on the majors and minor on the minors. We must be very careful to illuninate Christ and not our personal standards. He said when He is lifted up He will draw all men to himself. Our job is to lift Him up not judge others. That is the standard.

 

So, are you saying that the Pastor in the local church does not have the authority to set the standards (i.e., tell you what is acceptable dress)? </font>[/QUOTE]If he tries to establish any extra-Biblical standards- then I would say that, no, he doesn't have that authority. What if he tries to say that no person in his church may drive an automobile more than three years old? That 'standard' would have just as much of a Biblical basis as saying that all men must wear suits & ties (both of which are fairly recent styles of men's clothing: the tie (neckwear) dating no earlier than about 1660; and the contemporary men's suit going back to the 1800's). True Biblical standards aren't simply a product of a particular time & place in history. They are eternal and unchanging. The eternal & unchanging Biblical standard is modesty. For Adam & Eve that meant fig leaves; for Jesus and His disciples it meant robes.

Imagine for a moment that the year is 1400. Since suits & ties as we know them won't even be thought of for a few centuries, what would be the 'standard' for men's attire? Certainly not the contemporary 'standard' that many try to impose today. It should simply be attire that is modest. Once again, true Biblical standards are not related to whatever particular style or fashion exists at any time or place in history. Fashions have changed frequently over the centuries; what is currently in fashion doesn't dictate God's eternal, unchanging standards of what constitutes an acceptable lifestyle for a Christian.

 

when I was pastoring I wished a few times that a particular man would have worn a tie and I could have pulled it tight for all the trouble he gave me.

 

Who determines the interpretation of God's standard (i.e., Modesty) in the local church? This is my question, and basically repeats the question I asked earlier.

 

So, are you saying that the Pastor in the local church does not have the authority to set the standards (i.e., tell you what is acceptable dress)? </font>[/QUOTE]If he tries to establish any extra-Biblical standards- then I would say that, no, he doesn't have that authority. What if he tries to say that no person in his church may drive an automobile more than three years old? That 'standard' would have just as much of a Biblical basis as saying that all men must wear suits & ties (both of which are fairly recent styles of men's clothing: the tie (neckwear) dating no earlier than about 1660; and the contemporary men's suit going back to the 1800's). True Biblical standards aren't simply a product of a particular time & place in history. They are eternal and unchanging. The eternal & unchanging Biblical standard is modesty. For Adam & Eve that meant fig leaves; for Jesus and His disciples it meant robes.

Imagine for a moment that the year is 1400. Since suits & ties as we know them won't even be thought of for a few centuries, what would be the 'standard' for men's attire? Certainly not the contemporary 'standard' that many try to impose today. It should simply be attire that is modest. Once again, true Biblical standards are not related to whatever particular style or fashion exists at any time or place in history. Fashions have changed frequently over the centuries; what is currently in fashion doesn't dictate God's eternal, unchanging standards of what constitutes an acceptable lifestyle for a Christian. </font>[/QUOTE]Have I said that shirt and tie are requirements for modesty? I was simply asking who has the authority in that particular local church. Regardless of any preceived "extra-biblical standards", since you did not give the authority, you cannot say that that church/Pastor does not have the authority. There are churches that I have decided not to join, and some not to fellowship with; however, I will never question the authority of the Pastor in those churches to lead. I recall correcting a relative for saying something negative about his Pastor, although I personally did not agree with his Pastor, either.

Be it far from me to risk being attacked by a she-bear.

 

Hello pjlpel,
the only concern should be modesty and cloting that doies not draw attention to self, but to the Lord. The bible only deals with that and nothing else. By the way it has nothing to do with church. We are to be at all times clothed in a modest manner that points to the Lord. A suit is not a requirement, but modesty at ALL TIMES is.

 

Willie wrote:

Good, then we can agree that, say, a polo-shirt & dockers (for example) are no less modest than a suit & tie.

These arguments that some make along the lines of "What would you wear to the White House?", et al- are simply irrelevant. Since when should we let the expectations of the world ever be our yardstick for what needs to be an acceptable standard or practice for Christians?

In answer to your question, the final authority for Christian standards is the Bible. God has clearly told us what is acceptable, and what is not. If a pastor wishes to establish standards which are extra-Biblical, then certainly his church people have the freedom to choose to adhere to them; but there needn't be any false claim that they are Biblically-based.

I know of plenty of churches which have enforced standards of dress. I gave an example earlier in this thread in which I visited a church where I was literally scolded for not being "properly dressed for church", since I wasn't wearing a jacket & tie.

A few miles from me is an IFB church in which an announcement was recently made (in August) giving the men the O.K. to come to church w/o ties one Sunday, since they were having a "church workday" following the service. When a church makes an announcement saying that on one particular day it's O.K. to leave your tie at home- it's clearly been made an extra-Biblical standard that men must normally wear a tie to church.

I know of another church that had a rule that female bus kids could ride the bus in pants on their 1st Sunday of attendance; but must have on a dress or skirt to ride the bus thereafter. This rule was enforced for all ages: 1st grade and up. For all I know, they still have this rule. They'd rather pass on the opportunity to be a witness to these children then have them set foot on their church property in pants. I think that's wrong.

 

I can imagine Jesus saying I would have come to your church last sunday except I noticed some lady wearing pants and some man without a tie.

 

Sumthin wrong with your imagination then

 

Dear Ralph,
I guess I should'nt have been sarcastic. My apologies. I just think god the Father, God the Son, & God the Holy Spirit are a little more concerned with our hearts and souls than our suits,ties, and dresses.
Can you imagine Jesus saying ,"that's a really ugly tie you have on there buddy"."sorry fella no tie on in church this Sunday I can't listen to your prayers".