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Suffering

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Michael Wrenn, Jan 14, 2012.

  1. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    Excellent answer DHK. :thumbs:
     
  2. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    HP, I think that was an excellent post; thanks for writing it!
     
  3. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    Well, now I think I've heard it all, and on a Christian forum, no less! So let's all go to every abortion clinic we can find, and, instead of picketing them, cheer them on for doing the work of the Lord! Hallelujah!

    Praise God, I've been enlightened! And all this time I've opposed Planned Parenthood, abortion, and infanticide when I should have been donating monthly to the cause of God's mercy!
     
  4. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    You ridicule simply advertises your own ignorance of scripture. Isn't it God that appoints the time of death - Heb. 9:27?

    Heb. 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

    Job 14:5 Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;

    Job 30:23 For I know that thou wilt bring me to death, and to the house appointed for all living.




    Does not God forbid any man to usurp that perorgative

    - Gen. 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.


    CONCLUSION: God has the right to take life and He alone appoints the time when life is taken. Man has no such right. So much for your ridicule!
     
  5. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    And your attack simply advertises your ignorance -- period.
     
  6. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Oh really? Then why couldn't you respond to the scriptures I gave to back up those attacks?

    You are the typical elitist who can't back up what they say and so you just redicule your opponent.

    Well, put up or shut up!

    1. The Bible does teach that God appoints the time of every human being's death including infants.

    2. The Bible forbids humans to abort babies or adults.

    3. Hence, your rediculous charge is proven to be false
     
  7. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    (Rev 1:18) I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

    It is Christ that has the keys of hell and death.
    He alone can give life; he alone can take it away.
     
  8. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    Perhaps I don't want to be a Pharisee.

    I am not an elitist, and I assure you I can back up what I say -- anything and everything I say.

    Besides, your points 1 and 2 above have nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

    What is ridiculous and unbelievably abhorrent is this statement of yours: "Why did God order the Israelites to exterminate infants of the Canaanites? One may argue (as I do) that God is merciful in killing infants, because death denies them the opportunity to mature where they can willfully refuse him and willfully accumulate individual sins to be accountable at the day of judgement, if you believe dying infants are safe from eternal wrath before the age of accountability."

    Now that is depraved, as I pointed out before, with sarcasm.
     
    #28 Michael Wrenn, Jan 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2012
  9. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Its a good question. I like C.S. Lewis' book the problem of pain and I recommend it to you. But God allowing suffering only makes sense in a world view where people have freedom of choice. Also, I think the christian practice of offering up their suffering for others has died out. I think our society is too obsessed about pleasure. Pleasure isn't what God necissarily wants for us but Joy and Joy can be found in our suffering.
     
  10. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Do you deny that God ordered the Israelites to exterminate the infants of the Canaanites?

    If not, then, you justify God's order to kill infants with his grace, mercy and love and justice?
     
  11. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    Yes, I do. Anything that runs counter to the teachings and example of Jesus does not come from God.
     
  12. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    >Anything that runs counter to the teachings and example of Jesus does not come from God.

    Including most of the OT?
     
  13. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    Deu 20:12 But if it makes no peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it.
    Deu 20:13 And when the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall put all its males to the sword,
    Deu 20:14 but the women and the little ones, the livestock, and everything else in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as plunder for yourselves. And you shall enjoy the spoil of your enemies, which the LORD your God has given you.
    Deu 20:15 Thus you shall do to all the cities that are very far from you, which are not cities of the nations here.
    Deu 20:16 But in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you for an inheritance, you shall save alive nothing that breathes,
    Deu 20:17 but you shall devote them to complete destruction, the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, as the LORD your God has commanded,
    Deu 20:18 that they may not teach you to do according to all their abominable practices that they have done for their gods, and so you sin against the LORD your God.
     
  14. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    I don't find that most of the OT does that, just some of the parts from the priestly tradition. it is quite clear that Jesus and His teachings sprang from the OT prophets, as well as the Essene community. Isn't it ironic, but not coincidental, that Jesus was most violently opposed by the Jewish priesthood?
     
  15. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    Quote all you want and then try to reconcile that with the teachings of Jesus. I could quote the direct words of Jesus, but I don't suppose there is a need for that -- or do I wrongly assume that you know those words?
     
  16. targus

    targus New Member

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    All suffering is the result of the sin of Adam and Eve. If Adam and Eve had not sinned we would still be living in the Garden and not know anything about suffering.

    Most suffering in the world today is the product of man - either due to our own actions or inactions.

    If all people loved each other and loved God according to God's will then there would be no starvation in the world. We would all be feeding God's sheep with both spiritual and physical food.

    But we don't because we are all flawed.

    God doesn't step in to stop the starvation because it isn't His responsibility or making - it is ours.

    If the Steve Jobs story is true then instead of leaving the church he should have started working to feed the hungry.

    If the story is true it's a pity because Steve Jobs died with a whole lot of money that could have been used to feed the poor while he was still living.
     
  17. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    It doesn't matter what you think you can reconcile. The words are there and God's Word is true.
     
  18. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    Yes, the words of Jesus are true, and, since He is the Author of our faith, I prefer to follow his teachings and example. If you are more comfortable with Jewish priestism, perhaps you should convert.
     
  19. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    This is a good post; I agree 100%!

    Thank you for an intelligent and reasonable response.
     
  20. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    So just to be clear, you deny the truthfulness of the Old Testament?
     
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