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Discussion in 'Creation vs. Evolution' started by Helen, Jul 31, 2003.

  1. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

    Aug 29, 2001
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    I will not be here any longer. Barry's and my speaking schedules are getting too heavy (we will be in New Zealand in mid-August, Idaho and California in Sept., Ohio in Oct/Nov...); we are trying to get the house ready to sell; Chris, our youngest, (18 and profoundly retarded) has figured out the dead bolts on the doors and can now let himself out and go wandering down the street... --life is just not as calm in retirement mode as I had thought it would be!

    So I wanted to do a quick summary of some things here:

    First I am a creationist, and a young-creation creationist, because of the evidence. This I say to my shame as a Christian, because I have found that a straightforward reading of Genesis is true, and that I really could have believed God from the first. I guess we are all works in progress, though.

    Second, what I have found with the evolutionary side is that they have an excuse for everything. There is NOTHING which they cannot accomodate one way or another. That makes any evidence presented by creation folk irrelevant, ignorant, too limited to count, etc. Then they accuse us of believing some kind of 'cartoon theory of evolution.'

    It is no cartoon to understand that they are essentially saying that, one way or another, we came via millions of years, billions of deaths, from the changes that happened starting with one little cell. This directly contradicts both the Bible and the evidence we have in genetics and cells today. There is a ton of material in the preceding pages if you can weed your way through the mocking of the evolutionists. There are a few reasonable discussions, but for the most part, I found myself defending known facts, simple logic, evidence, and some very fine men -- all of whom, according to the evolutionists, are ignorant and/or stupid and/or deceivers.

    Mark Kluge has, in the meantime, attempted to derail my own husband's research by privately emailing folks who have reviewed some of his papers and trying to talk them into finding a way to cut off any funding Barry gets. This, as I repeated before, is slimy, since Mark will not even email Barry directly with challenges or discussions. This, too, is something that has made us decide to stop forum participation here. Barry's work is solid and undergoes constant review from several mathematicians and physicists for each paper. In the past few weeks he has been back in Australia and working with these men every single night discussing and refining his latest paper on mass and gravity.

    A public note to Mark -- you cannot cut off Barry's funding as you don't know where it is coming from. But suffice it to say that God has always supplied his every need and will continue to do so, despite any efforts on your part.

    Back to the rest of this forum. I came on two years ago on request after resigning moderatorship of another forum on another site. I was told the creationists needed help and I was glad to be of some help. Then I got in way, way too much for the time I have.

    For the Christians here: evolution depends on four things: time, chance, mutations, and natural selection. They do not have the time when one considers generation time and how slow they claim evolution must go. The laws of probability and chance are flat out against them. Mutations are deviations from a plan that already works, and thus those mutations whose results we can see (called 'expressed' mutations), are almost always bad for the plant or animal. The few 'good' ones are good only in such specific circumstances that when those circumstances change, that population with that mutation is at risk. And, finally, natural selection deletes section of a population by killing them off, one way or another, and thus narrowing down the potential diversity in that population. This can and does result in speciation. It also can and does result in the inability of the population to rebound should the environment change, for they no longer have that original gene pool to pull from.

    Yes the earth is young -- more like 8 thousand years than 6, but compared to the billions we are told, what's a couple of thousand here or there? :D

    Yes, it was created directly by God in six days, and the original plants and animals were created by 'kind' or original populations. Yes, Adam and Eve were special creations and not related to the animals.

    Yes, you can believe God's Word.

    Don't worry about the so-called 'differences' between Genesis 1 and 2. Two different points of view from two different people but the same creation. The two different people may well have been God Himself in Genesis 1 and Adam in Genesis 2:4a to 5:1. Whether the Tablet Hypothesis is right or wrong on this count, you can still trust God and know that you do not have to "interpret" Genesis to get the truth. However, please remember also that Bible explains Bible and no book actually stands on its own. They all work together to present the picture to us. Job contributes to details in Genesis, actually, as do a couple of the Psalms! So read your Bibles and know that always, always, you can trust God. If you think this means you should be wary of men's 'interpretatons,' you are right.

    Don't be afraid to think for yourselves. I was an evolutionist and taught evolution until I started reading more and studying more and thinking more. Creationism is not done any favors by popularizers like Kent Hovind, so please do your own reading and thinking and checking in with the people who do the science themselves.

    Here are some good sites to help you out:

    Tim Wallace's True Origins: www.trueorigin.org
    My husband's site: www.setterfield.org
    The Tablet Hypothesis explained: http://www.ldolphin.org/tablethy.html

    And an excellent summary of news items and their relevance can be found at Creation Safaris here:

    God bless you all. I can be reached at any time we are not traveling at [email protected]. We are also available at [email protected]