SWBTS: Master of Arts in Lay Ministry - Opinions?

Doesn't the SBC already have a successful strategy to train the laity for Kingdom service--Seminary Extension?

 

Depends on your definition of "successful" and "strategy"

 

A master's-level program at a seminary is going to be much more in-depth, and some individuals might prefer this.

 

I predict that the instant you set foot in seminary, even for a degree in lay-level Masters degree coursework, you will discover that it is no Sunday school.

I've been on the campus of SBTS for about 13 years now -- two degrees and I'm currently the Manager of Grounds for the campus. I've seen 26 incoming classes. I've also seen a good number of students who arrive on campus thinking it to be an extension of their Sunday school program in their home church. Those are typically the first to wash out of the program when the professors hold them accountable for a book a week per class, plus 15-25 page papers written to a high academic standard, plus the quizes, tests, book reviews, and depth of information needed to be assimilated to pass the course. That, in part, is why most seminary-level degree programs insist on a calling to vocational ministry as a prerequisite. The work is rigourous and time consuming.

All that being said, the properly motivated person can successfully accomplish the degree program offered by my sister seminary, and the one who completes the course of study will be rewarded with a greater grasp of Scripture, history, theology, and church-related skills. But, I would not anticipate a walk in the park...

 

The SBC has several classes one can take by doing the work through Nashville. Years ago they has courses taught at churhces and each person who completed the course received a certificate. They were quite good. They were aimed at serious lay people in the church who wanted to be better teachers and better equipped to do ministry. I have used their materials among all kinds of people.

 

I think Tom hit on something when he mentioned the failure in the churches to effectively communicate many of the "deeper" subjects to the folks in the church pew. Something that as a pastor I need to hear and be challenged by.

 

When I was younger, I got many hours of good training through those church study courses. I took some in group settings through the association and took many through independent study. They have a different look now, but the training is still good. Many of those courses counted for CEUs later for my ACSI license. Not the same as college courses, but that level of training isn't needed for everything.

 

This is, sadly, probably correct.

And Southwestern is nowhere near the intellectual and scholarly force it once was. It's been heading downhill at an increasing rate for years. Patterson's odd, made-up degrees (like the homemaking one) are nothing short of laughable and bizarre.

 

In an effort to increase enrollments that has happened many places.

It became rather obvious at SWBTS when they lost many of their best professors and those who were taught by them. However it sounds like SEBTS and SBTS have greatly improved.

Where would you send you son or daughter to seminary if they wanted to be well prepared for ministry?

For several years friends of mine who are missionaries tell me that they have seen a decline in the Sunday School teaching and sermons when they return to the US each time. Those churches are not limited to the SBC. It appears to be all over.

 

I'm no huge fan of Patterson. And SWBTS is IMHO nowhere near the caliber of a SBTS or SEBTS now under Dr. Akin's leadership. That said, I think it's a bit of a stretch to make it sound like SWBTS is somehow dying on the vine. Patterson is a polarizing figure. People either love him or hate him - which makes him perfect for SWBTS.

 

How does that make him perfect for SWBTS?

 

They're not all seminaries, but Fuller, Talbot, Trinity, Wheaton, Gordon-Conwell, to name a few. You will lean at those schools how to exegete and interpret Scripture, as well as learn how to interact with culture. I'm not a particularly big fan of most of the Baptist seminaries at this point, but Southern, I think, is the strongest, from what I've read and heart.

And I certainly wouldn't suggest someone receive a degree in lay ministry or homemaking. Get a theology degree or a religious education degree or something similar that will prepare you in the discipline.

 

A question to consider when thinking about the stature of seminaries and their professors is whether the leading professors in their fields would gravitate to that seminary if given the chance or not. In the case of SBTS, the answer is yes -- they are waiting in line.. The staff at SBTS may be the best staff of professors ever gathered in one place at one time in the history of the church, which is not to say that there are not also great men of faith in other institutions -- there are -- just not as many and not all gathered in one location.

 

I agree with you. I would think the greater the rigor the greater the learning and equipping. One who is lazy and knows little would ever teach someone what they need to know to do well.

 

Really? I think that's quite an overstatement.

 

SWBTS has always elicited strong feelings from both sides of the spectrum through much of its history. Also, it's had its share of rather imposing figures as President (Carroll, Scarborough, Naylor, Dilday, and now Patterson). Imposing may not be the best word, but you get my drift.

I agree that SBTS is the greatest on the planet and best of the Big six. That said, Drs. Block, Blaising, House, Howell, Mitchell, and others, have left to teach elsewhere, and these men are some of the best in their field (Mitchell may be unsurpassed in evangelical bioethics). So to say that the greatest profs in the history of the world are there now may be a bit of a stretch, but I can't argue with someone who loves the Beeches as much as I do

 

I had Block at Wheaton. He is a wonderful, heartfelt scholar and a great man.

I know there are quality people at Southern, but there are scholars and faculty that carry equal or greater weight many other places.

 

There's been a lot of obese people, but I doubt you're going there.