Take Down The Bird Feeder!

Suzi Q ​

Suzi Q is a lost woman. She is a single mother of 2, who is struggling to make ends meet. She has a broken down car that she has to depend on to get back and forth to her minimum wage job.

She gets up in the morning, gets her oldest to the bus stop, 6 month old to the babysitter, and arrives just in time at work to here her boss chew her out for being 5 minutes late.

She is over worked and underpaid, she is worried about the bills at home that are piling up, and the bill collectors that keep calling her.

She struggles through her day, calling her babysitter at ​

at 3:30 to make sure her oldest got home after school. At 4:30 her boss tells her to work over until 5:30.






At 6:00 when she finally gets home, her babysitter tells her that if she is late 1 more time, she will have to find another babysitter.



She finally gets dinner, helps with homework, bathes the kids, and gets them to sleep… at 9:30 pm. She goes to bed with a headache, knowing she has to get up at 5:30 the next morning.

While all the time she lives across the street from:


​

The First Self Righteous Church of Anytown, USA

The FSR Church Prides itself in:​

Being the biggest church in town.
With the largest attendance on Sunday mornings
The best cooks around for fellowships
The hardest hitting preaching in town.
Being doctrinally pure, whatever that means to them
Their mission programs to 120 foreign missionaries
The best praise band in the county
Having the softest pews, the most up to date sound system, and the most wonderful furnishings.
Having Classes and small groups every night of the week.
Having the most upstanding citizens of Anytown, USA as members.

Something is WRONG somewhere!!​

When a church is too concerned about itself to help it’s neighbor it quits being a New Testament Church​

We are called to put the seed out...
If it attracts birds, so be it...​

​

 

I oppose socialism/communism. But in doing so it is unnecessary, incorrect, and irresponsible to place those in need in this kind of light. There are all kinds of people who try to abuse government programs. Some of them are even wealthy.

Condemn the ideology and even those that push it. But the single mother that can hardly make ends meet may need a washing machine. An elderly couple who cannot keep up the maintenance on their house may need some repairs. A local drunk may need a place to stay sober for a while so he can dry up that wet brain and be able to make some realistic decisions for a change. Not everyone who wants and needs help are trying to get over on the tax payers. And they certainly are not our enemies.

 

TinyTim's post illustrates the role a church should play. But this society, including the Church, has deligated that responsibility to politicians, who relish it.

Still, I have to believe someone in that church would see that young mother and get her some help..

I believe the Holy Spirit guides believers that avail themselves, to take up these kinds of issues...

 

I posted this fictional illustration a couple yrs ago...
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=886836#post886836


It was an illustration to a sermon I was preaching...

And to my surprise there were some here on BB that said that it wasn't the church's job to help her because she wasn't a part of the church...

You are right... hillclimber, if the church would do it's job, the government would not be so big. I also believe the church would be more effective.

 

IF the church had done its 'duty' as an act of love from God to the needy:

IF the members of the church had seen their tithes and gifts, going for more than the biggest buildings, the latest fads in interior decorating, the greatest comfort provided any audience to use a facility for only 5-15 hours a week:

IF the pastors' income was in line with those of his flock:

IF the church had promoted the concerns within the community as a mission of God' providence to it:

Then perhaps citizen Christians and lawmakers which rose from their congregations would have had greater confidence that God gave those opportunities to us, not the government.

Every program the government gets its hands on to perform 'for us' out of 'our need' cost more than the actual service. I dare say, if charities took donations and delivered out of each dollar, such few pennies for the services they serve... like the government does... they would go broke: People would stop giving.

 

While bringing socialism into the textbooks of public education in the USA, our leaders led us to 'be afraid' of communism. Very little was taught regarding Nazi Germany. Many of the socialogy studies in the 60's and 70's colleges referenced as fact the now debunked Kinsey reports, and studies of pubescent teens sexuality in America Samoa. Many of our leaders in government... office holders and appointees... hold degrees from Yale and Harvard........ Harvard, I believe, where the liberal Carroll Quigly (sp?) inspired Bill Clinton into politics. Most are members of the CFR. Many of this elite group attend an occult meeting in the heart of California, where a (hopefully mock) human sacrifice is made to an Owl god called Molech and say a goodbye to 'care'. As crazy as all of this sounds (or it did to me when I first heard of it), it goes begin to explain the diabolical positions we seem to be seeing in our country.... and the fraternal type patronage, many candidates seem to give each other across party lines inspite of the voice of the people..... like a quiet conspiracy to move together in the same direction.....that of globalization.

I think it was Jefferson that warned that a government that can offer people what they want can take what they have. Its amazing how people will go to the polls and vote for 'the offer' or the promises of politicians without considering they are asking government to take from them and their neighbors: Furthermore government social programs are less efficient than the same responsibility taken on by the community or private sector.

 

Where does the Bible tell us to put out the kind of "seed described in the OP"?

 

The truth is, it doesn't:
We are to be stewards of our resources.
The Bible clearly teaches that we will have the poor with us always. The needs we are to help with regard those survival needs of a neighbor who can't provide... not for those who wont or refuse to provide but are capable. The resources offered those in need are not put out like a smorgusboard for all to feed upon regardless of need, like the bird seed.

But, those who have real needs, should be able to find santuary and comfort, hope and help, from the body of Christ.

The early church appointed deacons to assess and assist in determining the needs of those who complained they were needy, and the stewardship governing the use of collective resources for those needs: However, it did not prevent the one on one nuturing and help of individuals to other's needs, of which they were aware.

We are not expected to read people's minds, and not all needs are readily apparent upon a superficial observation. A person having unmet but very real needs, should be able to ask for help. For many people, this requires enough genuine interest and involvement to develop a relationship with others for such candid information to be exchanged. When we know of a need but are not in ourselves able to assist, we should know those contacts within our assembly which might have both the provisions and the power to help, and make quiet reference and contacts between them.

 

We had a young woman with three children that were three and under come to services one Sunday. One infant in arm and a two year old grasping her dress and the three year old was grasped by her free hand. After the services it was found out that her boy friend was in prison and was not providing care for her children. She needed formula and food. We got the needed food but soon found out that all she had to keep the open formula and food cool was a beer cooler.
God was gracious to me in that I had an extra old refrigerator/freezer and I gave it to her. Even delivered it and set it up. She was soon arrested for drug possession and her babies are now the wards of the State. As far as I know that fridge is still in that now uninhabited mobile home being used by no body. I would reclaim it but the land owner will not let me near the property.

Would I do it again if another came in like manner with a need to my little Church? In a heart beat I would. However it is instances like this that makes others hesitant to help. I still can't get over how hungry those children were. :tear:

 

You did your best! Sometimes that's what happens.... but then, the seeds of God's love were sown... and one day they may get water and sprout. raying:

 

Old Testament passages
• "During the seventh year, let the land lie unplowed and unused. Then the poor among your people may get food from it, and the wild animals may eat what they leave. Do the same with your vineyard and your olive grove." Exodus 23:11
• "Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:10
• "When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 23:22
• "He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the alien, giving him food and clothing." Deuteronomy 10:18
• "At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns, so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied." Deuteronomy 14:28-29
• "There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land." Deuteronomy 15:11
• "When you are harvesting in your field and you overlook a sheaf, do not go back to get it. Leave it for the alien, the fatherless and the widow, so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands. When you beat the olives from your trees, do not go over the branches a second time. Leave what remains for the alien, the fatherless and the widow. When you harvest the grapes in your vineyard, do not go over the vines again. Leave what remains for the alien, the fatherless and the widow." Deuteronomy 24:19-21
• "He who mocks the poor shows contempt for their Maker; whoever gloats over disaster will not go unpunished." Proverbs 17:5
• "He who is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward him for what he has done." Proverbs 19:17
• "If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered." Proverbs 21:13
• "A generous man will himself be blessed, for he shares his food with the poor." Proverbs 22:9
• "He who gives to the poor will lack nothing, but he who closes his eyes to them receives many curses." Proverbs 28:27
• "The righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern." Proverbs 29:7
• "'He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" declares the LORD." Jeremiah 22:16

New Testament passages
• "For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in." Matthew 25:35
• "Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys." Luke 12:33
• "When Jesus heard this, he said to him, You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.'" Luke 18:22
• "All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do." Galatians 2:10
• "Give proper recognition to those widows who are really in need." 1 Timothy 5:3
• "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." James 1:27
• "If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth." 1 John 3:17-18

 

and yet no where in scripture does it command us to redistribut wealth via the government which is the poorest of stewardship and responsibility.

 

I've said many times that I would far prefer to have the Church or individual Christians help the poor. I just don't think the church is willing or able to do that. Do you? Just picking up some of the cost of medical care for 50 million Americans without medical insurance would be an awesome task. I have no idea what it would take to feed and house all the poor. If you think the church could take that over from the government how would that get accomplished? For one thing, a lot of people have expressed on this board an unwillingness to cooperate with other churches or other denominations.

If you don't want the government to do this and you don't want the church to do it what's your proposal?

• "If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth." 1 John 3:17-18

 

Yes. I see it done every day.

This figure is inflated and doesn't cover those who choose not to have coverage.

And we shouldn't try to feed "all" of the poor. Fact is many who are poor need to be where they are and can get out of it if they want to. If you help some people to soon you only hurt them.

So?

Who is "you"? Anyway the insistance of the lack of involvement of the church appears to be mnore of an excuse than a reality.

And the church reaches out every day.

 

I don't think we're talking about the same thing. You say you see the church helping the poor every day. Of course that's true. But you're not talking about all the poor. I'd guess the church helps at most 5% of the poor in the way they need to be helped. (Not a $100 gift but picking up their support until they can help themselves.) Why is it important that Christ's Church work together on this? To me that's obvious. We could be a lot more efficient and effective that way. Not even all Baptists are willing to work together. Yoy is "you yourself." I asked for a workable alternative. You (that's YOU) haven't provided one.

 

I have news for you. The government is not a viable solution. Just take a look at what has happened to socialized healthcare in Mass. This is poor stewardship. Money is not the total solution. Addressing the problems that lead to poverty is the real solution. Of which I never see nor hear libs discuss, or even make any attempt to address. Do you know how much money this country spends because of divorce in this country? Most social problems divorce, drugs alcohol etc cost tax payers untold amounts of money. You want a solution? Start there. Money doesn't even scratch the surface.

 

I'm disappointed. I'd rather talk about birding :thumbs:

 

I asked you once before. What is YOUR proposal? Or would you rather just turn your back on the poor ignoring the warnoings in the Bible?