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Take This Christian Music Test

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Frenchy, Apr 30, 2006.

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  1. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    And Greg, I appreciate that with your past, it might be something you should avoid for conscience's sake...but that should not be a prescriptive argument.

    Now, I'll repeat my question, since you didn't answer it:
    QUESTION 1: The context of 2 Corinthians 6:17 is that believers should not fellowship with unbelievers.

    Are you, then, saying that ALL CCM artists are unbelievers? Or could you possibly admit that some of our modern singers/musicians/worship leaders are in fact committed believers?

    QUESTION 2: define "Hymn." Give me a musical definition--time signature and tempos that are appropriate. Define lyrically what a "hymn" is. Define when a "hymn" is accpeptable, with respect to time frame (is "Because He Lives" acceptable? It's "new!"). Delineate between "hymn," spiritual, and gospel song--those are different genres.

    And as you answer question 1, be very aware...'tis a dangerous thing to take something that God is using and assign it to the realm of Satan. Ask the pharisees.
     
  2. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    I say to you respectfully that you are basing your theology on your experiences and not the Word of God.

    I can do that too, but it would lead me to use CCM, as I have seen many come to Christ using CCM for worship music.

    But we both need to base our beliefs on the Bible.

    There are no verses proving it either way.. that is why this is the never ending debate... all we have is our experiences and opinions to make the call on..

    Don't listen to it if it is a stumbling block for you. I choose to, because I truly worship Christ when I do.

    I grew up listening to CCM, (I was saved at 8 yrs old) I never got caught up in the "rock" scene. So to me it is just Christian music.

    But that is MY opinion and experience. Obviously yours is different, and we will never convince each other to switch opinions.
     
  3. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

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    Rbell....would you not agree that it is infinitely possible for even a committed believer to be sincere....yet WRONG.My only prayer for myself is that God would give me wisdom and discernment so that I would be right with Him so HE would get the glory from a life lived for Him.In all I say and do(including the music I listen to and sing)I want to honor Him....since He gave His all for me at Calvary.I ask for God to protect me from error each day.You should do the same.We are in a war and our adversary wants to render us ineffective for our Savior.He'll do that anyway he can....and in our generation music and doctrinal compromise are two of the biggest ways he tries to do that.That is my opinion as a brother in Christ....and I'm gonna stand on it.
    By the way...I use ONLY the KJV...don't trust or like anything else.

    Greg Sr.
     
  4. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

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    And NO...I'm not about to say that all CCM artists are unbelievers.....but I might be bold enough to say that they can't be right with God and be involved in what they are doing.There is a line somewhere that people cross to get from fellowship with God to a state of apostasy.I don't presume to know where that line is...I just know I don't EVER want to get close to it.

    Greg Sr.
     
  5. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    Even that is a dangerous statement... what do you base it on, your opinions... no where in any KJV does it say you are out of fellowship with God if you like, or sing CCM!

    It is dangerous to play God.
     
  6. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Then we reach a philosophical impasse, Greg. God is blessing what we do...and for us, music is not entertainment, but AN avenue (not THE but AN) of expressing worship to God. I'm sure that you are blessed by what you are listening to, as am I...an avid fan of hymns (favorite 3: Be Thou My Vision, A Mighty Fortress, Holy Holy Holy). I do agree that Satan reaches kids any way he can...I just don't see the scriptural basis to say he does it through Christian music.

    We shall agree to disagree then.
     
  7. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

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    convictions based on personal perferences are dangerous.
     
  8. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Doggone it, and I had just hit "add reply"... :D

    I could not begin to tell you how wrong the first part of your statement is. Your statement makes two fallacies:
    (1) You judge the whole of all Christian music you don't like...encompassing scores of styles and emphases. Do you really think that all the hundreds and hundreds of singers and musicians can be lumped together that easily?
    (2)I am a worship leader. What I play you would classify as "contemporary" (though it is worship based rather than for entertainment's sake). You are saying that I'm not right with God. I take offense to that. God has given me an incredible peace about what I do and how I do it. I'm not prescribing that you should listen to "modern" stuff or play it...but to say I'm headed to apostacy is wrong, judgemental, and unscriptural.
     
  9. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    I see the "av1611" in the web address and that clinches that I will not click on the site, let alone take some idiot's "test." The way of thinking represented in this thread is like that of the scribes, who said Jesus could not be of God because he healed on the sabbath or kept company with tax collectors.
     
  10. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

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    Guys...I gotta get to bed but I'll be back sometime tomorrow for more discussion.I will add that I don't believe the music I listen too has to be old to be good but I do NOT believe that modern musical styles should be used for sacred music,ie.,rock,jazz,hip-hop,country,etc. Godly music should be such that the style of the music doesn't drown out or overshadow the message of the music.And it should always be able to pass the test of sound bible doctrine.There are some "old" songs that don't do that as well I'm sure.I just don't want to live in a "gray" area when it comes to this topic.Music is a POWERFUL tool that God himself ordains for His children and encourages us to use "psalms,hymns,and spiritual songs" singing and making melody in our hearts to the Lord.It stands to reason and is OBVIOUSLY true that satan will try his dead level best to counterfeit it and decieve God's children in this matter.I'll stay with the mostly old(but some new) orthodox hymns of the faith.Even the LOST folk have no doubt there is something "different"(in a Godly,religious way) about them. Later guys.Let's just all with honest hearts agree to pray for each other...and see what God does....!

    Greg Sr.
     
  11. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Thanks for your input Greg. Have a restful evening.
     
  12. Frenchy

    Frenchy New Member

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  13. Frenchy

    Frenchy New Member

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    Well all i can say is, is the music you listen to or the church allows follow these biblical criteria's by John Macarthur. if they do not then there is a huge basis for rightly judging most CCM we see today and the last 20 years...by the way that site is very legit and if one actually reads many of the links provided he just might learn something about Satans lies and deceptions. this is why he has gotten away with deceiving our kids for so long, adults have their eyes closed [​IMG]

    What to Do in the Gray Areas
    by: John MacArthur

    One of my joys as a pastor is to guide people through God's Word and explain its implications on their lives. It thrills me to help others by clarifying a point of doctrine, interpreting a difficult verse, or answering any number of other questions. Among the concerns people raise, I can't remember the last time someone asked me if it was wrong to lie, to cheat, to steal, to commit murder, to commit adultery, or to covet. It's also been a long time since anyone wanted to know whether a Christian should read the Bible, pray, or tell others about salvation in Jesus Christ. The Bible is pretty clear about those things.

    There is, however, one class of question that falls somewhere in the middle. These are the issues dealing with Christian freedom–things that fall in the "gray" area. What entertainment is acceptable? What kind of music is okay? What can a Christian do or not do on Sunday? What about what you wear, what you eat and drink, or how you spend your free time–does the Bible address those things?

    Some would say, "No, the Bible doesn't address them. Do what you want to do–you're free in Christ!" While it is true that the Bible doesn't specifically list every possible decision you'll face in life, it does address all choices with principles that govern Christian freedom. When you run your choices in the "gray areas" through the following grid of principles from God's Word, I trust you'll find both clarity and true freedom to live your life to God's glory.

    Will it benefit me spiritually?
    All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify. (1 Cor. 10:23)

    A "profitable" thing is useful, helpful, or to your advantage to do; and the idea behind "edify" is to build up spiritually. So based on this verse, ask yourself, "Will doing this enhance my spiritual life? Will it cultivate godliness? Will it build me up spiritually?" If not, you should seriously question whether that behavior is the best choice.

    Will it bring bondage?
    All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything. (1 Cor. 6:12) In the second part of this verse, Paul is saying, "I will not be brought under the power of anything." If what you are considering can be habit forming, why pursue it? Don't allow yourself to be in bondage to anything or anyone. You are a bond-servant of the Lord Jesus Christ, and Him alone.

    Will it defile God's temple?
    Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body. (1 Cor. 6:19-20)
    Don't do anything that you know will harm your body or bring shame–it is the only instrument you have to glorify God. Romans 6:13 says, "Present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God." How you choose to use your body should always reflect your concern to honor Jesus Christ.

    Will it cause anyone to stumble?
    Food will not commend us to God; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat. But take care lest this liberty of yours somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. (1 Cor. 8:8-9)
    This is the principle of love. As Romans 13:10 says: "Love does no wrong to a neighbor; love therefore is the fulfillment of the law." If you know that your choice–what you consider "in bounds" and approved–causes another Christian to stumble and sin, love that brother or sister enough to restrict your own freedom. That is not very popular in our self-absorbed society, but it is biblical. To continue to indulge in a legitimate freedom that causes problems for another Christian is a sin. For "by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. Therefore," Paul said, "if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, that I might not cause my brother to stumble." (1 Cor. 8:12-13)

    Will it further the cause of evangelism?
    Give no offense either to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God; just as I also please all men in all things, not seeking my own profit, but the profit of the many, that they may be saved (1 Cor. 10:32-33).
    Whether you are aware of it, what you allow or disallow in your behavior affects your witness for Christ–and the world is watching. It's an issue of testimony–what your life says about God. Your testimony either tells the truth about God, or it tells a lie. The choices you make in the "gray" areas should reflect your concern not to bring offense to God's reputation but to bring Him praise instead.

    Will it violate my conscience?
    He who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin (Rom. 14:23).
    First Corinthians 10:25 29 contains three references to abstaining from a certain practice "for conscience sake." Never train yourself to violate your conscience. If your conscience is troubled by what you consider, don't do it. If you aren't sure about it, don't do it. It is hard to overstate the value of a clean conscience, but it is worth keeping your conscience clear so that your relationship to God will not be hindered. If you'll keep yourself in prayer and the study of God's Word, you will inform your conscience so you can "walk as children of light...finding out what is acceptable to the Lord" (Eph. 5:8, 10).

    Will it bring glory to God?
    Therefore, whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God (1 Cor. 10:31).
    That verse is clearly both the summary and the goal of all the principles I've shared. Isn't our heart's cry to glorify our Lord and Savior with our lives? Think about your decision–Will He be glorified, honored, and praised through it? May we say along with Jesus, "I glorified You on the earth." (John 17:4)

    So what questions do you have? Run them through the principles above and enjoy your freedom in Christ – the freedom to be what He created you to be!

    http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/Grace_to_You/Article.asp?article_id=448

    [ May 01, 2006, 02:01 AM: Message edited by: Frenchy ]
     
  14. Rachel

    Rachel New Member

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    Would you include...say... "Jesus Take the Wheel" By Carrie Underwood in that 'garbage'? It would seem very odd not to. After all it's that heathen country music.
    http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/11/1264/4.html
     
  15. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    yuck, satanic quotes. Whats up with this you think. I haven't heard any of the artists she mentions using satanic quotes, I think this first link was misrepresented by the op.
     
  16. Frenchy

    Frenchy New Member

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    Rachel that song by Carrie had more truth and meaning (made me cry) than MOST CCM today.

    there really wasn't anything wrong with that song. not sure i am getting your point?
     
  17. Frenchy

    Frenchy New Member

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    Donna click on some of the links that mention those artist and you will find Satanic symbols they often use and their interveiws with ungodly quotes and misrepentations of true christianity. not to mention their cross over to secular music, and desire to be stars, rather than point people to Jesus. but if you don't read the links you will never know that.
     
  18. terriloo

    terriloo New Member

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    I know this is an old debate on this BB, but I've been away for awhile, and am just now coming back, so I'm sure I'll say some stuff that others have already said.

    Because of my own experiences, I was astonished (the first time I found this BB) to learn that there WAS a raging debate about CCM. I could not understand why anyone would denouce a method that God had used in my OWN LIFE to bring me closer to Him. Long story short: After many years of living outside of His will for my life and going my own way, like the Prodigal, I "woke up" one day and realized that I wanted to run back home to my Father's house. He first led me to a local Christian radio station--that usually played what I would call traditional hymns (which I actually PREFER).

    One particular day, completely filled with the stress and pain of family problems, I turned on my car radio to hear these words,
    "When I remember what you've done...
    When I remember the shedding of your blood...
    I can't help but worship you;
    I can't help but worship you;
    I can't help but worship You
    For all You've done".

    These lyrics (written and sung by Kim Hill) were fairly SHOUTED over guitars and drums and all the trappings of the music that the OP's website denounces. It was loud and large and INCREDIBLY, SOUL-SPLITTINGLY MEANT FOR ME TO HEAR. By GOD, not Satan. Because when I heard that magnificent music and felt those words embrace my ears, I literally had to pull over on the side of the road and cry and shout and praise God all at the same time.

    I felt God's presence so strongly at that moment that there is NOTHING that anyone could say to persuade me to believe that CCM (in general) is evil, or even too "worldly". I sang and wept GOD's praises; I ran even FASTER back to my Father's arms because of that song. Where can anyone find fault with THAT?

    Now, someone may post on here and tell me that Kim Hill is, in fact, a recent convert to Wicca or something--I haven't researched anything about her personally in several years, so I don't know. And, certainly, not every contemporary Christian artist is perfect. Assuredly, some of them ARE probably in it for the money--but, just as assuredly, the same could be said of some of the preachers who stand in the pulpit ranting and raving against CCM. And, possibly, some of the CCM may actually be demons in disguise. Just as, possibly, some of the people in our churches may be as well.

    I just know that a song that points me to Heaven with all my heart and soul as it brings me to my knees in recognition of the sacrifice of my Savior canNOT be of the devil. The song was not glorified, the singer was not glorified, and I don't even know for sure what instruments were played in the song--but I can say with certainty that GOD was glorified with that song, and He is glorified every single time I recall that moment.
     
  19. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    This sounds like early Christian arguments. Early Christians wouldn't use the magrephah because it was too Jewish; then, the Jews wouldn't use things that were too Christian.

    The quotes from satanic groups are, of course, going to be satanic. The quotes from misguided Christians will, of course, be misguided. But, to lump everything together is just plain silly!

    When I was younger and was not living my life for the Lord, I had a record of filthy hymns. Some group had taken hymns and put filthy lyrics to them. Does this mean the hymns are filthy? After all, they apparently lend themselves to being made filthy.
     
  20. Rachel

    Rachel New Member

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    lol Right. :rolleyes:
    I don't know what CCM you are talking about. Yes I looked at that idiotic site but it's complete garbage as others have stated. Nice touch with that music in the background too. ;)

    Maybe you never heard of groups like Casting Crowns. There's so many good Godly groups out there singing/living for the Lord. And singing all types of Christian music.
    It's always amazing to hear how their brothers and sisters in Christ love to put them down for that.

    I have heard that song by Carrie and do like it but many in this very thread I'm sure would say it's no different than the CCM y'all are condemning. And condemning unjustly. Christian country is in the same category as CCM isn't it? I've read that often enough on this site.

    I wonder how pleased God is with alot of this nonsense.
     
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