Talking to the DEAD

We do see instances in scripture were someone does pray to a dead saint. Tabitha was a disciple in Joppa who dies. St. Peter prayed to her when he said: Tabitha, rise. She was dead Bob, dead, and Paul was addressing her…cased closed (Acts 9:36-41).

Christ Himself does the same thing with regard to Lazarus. He prays for Lazarus a DEAD MAN and then Christ speaks directly to a DEAD MAN …Lazarus, come out.

The Bible tells us that other disciples raised people from the dead. So presumably, they would follow the same model of Jesus, whom prayed to the dead person by addressing them while they were STILL DEAD.

So there are at least two if not more instances of people in the Bible contacting the dead.

We also see occurrences of those praying for the DEAD. Elijah (1 Kings 17:17-24) and quite arguably, St. Paul again praying for the seemingly dead man Onesiphorus (2 Timothy 1:16-18).

…But I’m sure you have some argument against these examples….
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Do you raise the dead? Do you resurrect the dead person to be alive?

Or do you just keep the dead to continue to be dead and talk to them?
So, you are confessing that RCC keeps the Dead to continue to be dead, while the True Christianity raise the dead, right?

Elijah raised the dead boy to be alive, and his mother thanked Elijah when he said "See, thy son liveth" ( 1 Kings 17:23) Then his mother said " I know that thou are a man of God"
Do Catholic do this miracle?

Do you believe Onesiphorus was dead when he often visited Paul in the prison? So you interpret that Onesiphorus as a ghost visited Paul in chain?

Your interpretation sound like a sorcerer's or diviner's interpretation.
Onesiphorus was alive when he visited Paul in Prison often and therefore Paul prayed the Lord to bless his house.

 

Excellent comment !:thumbs:
To Roman Catholic, God is dead.

 

Ecellent Point and Comparison again! :thumbs:

 

Good Post for everyone to read ! :thumbs: Pagan Eisegesis cheat them who hold such interpretation. How miserable they are ! We must pray for them, not for the dead.

 

Ridiculous statement.

 

Ridiculous Reaction!

 

No, it isn't.

You;re accusing fellow brothers and sisters in Christ of athiesm.

Prove it, or apologize and admit you haven't a clue.

 

It attributes the attributes that are due only to God alone: omniscience, omnipresence, to all the various saints the the RCC pray to, and thus makes their religion polytheistic (like the Hindu religion) or pagan. Ther is only one God, not many. Mary, Peter, Paul, and all the others that are prayed to cannot be everywhere at all times to hear all Catholics in all countries in all languages throughout all ages. They are not God (gods). But the Catholic religion has made them gods reducing itself to a pagan religion.

 

No, I don't consider the pagan, fake Christians as the brothers and sisters in Christ. Otherwise I must be cheated by them. In order to prove they are the Christians, they must present the true testimony of their faith in Jesus Christ.

Praying to the Dead means that they treat the Dead as their god.
Rightly BobRyan pointed out that Eliajh prayed to God, not to the Dead. But Agnus Dei claimed that Elijah prayed to the Dead.

Therefore rightly BR mentioned this:

Agnus Dei told us this ( Elijah story) is the proof of praying to the Dead.
Unless he repeal that claim, it means that he still consider the Dead as his god. This is not the testimony from the true Christians at all.
You didn't read the post by BR, did you? If you did, you wouldn't have reacted like that.

 

Almost, but not precisely, wrong.

 

I would appreciate it if you Eliyahu and BR, would pay more attention to what people post on this thread. I bet you failed reading comprehension in school huh?

I stated in my post #81 that Eliyah prayed for the dead, not to the dead!

We also see occurrences of those praying for the DEAD. Elijah (1 Kings 17:17-24) and quite arguably, St. Paul again praying for the seemingly dead man Onesiphorus (2 Timothy 1:16-18).​

In addition the Catholic faith believes in one God, have you never read the Creeds? Your IGNORANT of both Roman Catholic Theology and Scripture

What a shame...
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You have made some grave hermeneutical errors, assuming facts not present. Demonstrate or give evidence that Omesiporus was a dead man. This is an utterly frimilous conclusion with no basis in fact. It is an assumption, a guess, a conclusion based on nothing. It certainly is not based on the context of the passage, which BTW, has already been pointed out to you, and you obviously have failed to read:

2 Timothy 1:15-18 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.
16 The Lord give mercy unto the house of Onesiphorus; for he oft refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain:
17 But, when he was in Rome, he sought me out very diligently, and found me. The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day: and in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou knowest very well.
2 Timothy 1:18 The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day: and in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou knowest very well.

1. Prayers don't start with "this thou knowest." It is not a prayer. Verse 15 is the first verse of the paragraph. It is instruction to Timothy. The book is a pastoral epistle, an epistle of instruction to Timothy of advice in church matters. This is not a prayer.
2. In the conclusion of chapter one, he mentions to Timothy the help that Onesiphorus had been to him; it is not a prayer. The WEB translation simply says "May the Lord grant mercy to the house of Onesiphorus..." We often make similar statements, statements of fact. They are not prayers.
3. And then he gives the reason why the Lord should bless him--because he was a help to Paul when he was in prison. Dead people don't help others in prison. BTW, Paul wrote this epistle while in prison. It is also known as a "prison epistle. It is the last epistle that he ever wrote. Read the last chapter where he says "my time is at hand." He knows that he will soon be executed.
4. If Onesphorus were dead Paul would never had written verse 18. The fact that Paul wrote witht the judgement seat in mind, "find mercy in that day," is evidence that he was still alive. Paul never prayed for a dead person. Furthermore, the event that he is referring to is in the future giving more credence to the fact that Onesiphorus is still alive.
Dead people don't serve prisoners.
Are your really that far into the occult?

 

It is ashame that you give attributes that are due only to God to the dead in heaven, thus making your religion polytheistic. Only God can be omnipresent and omniscient. But you have made all the so-called "saints" in heaven gods.

 

Broad brush much?

 

Look class another one that has seemingly failed reading comprehension. Re-read my post again DHK, I said that Paul seemingly prays for Onesiphours. And yes, an honest reading of 2 Timothy 1:16-18, one does get the feeling that something has happened to him, for Paul ask for mercy unto the house of Onesiphours (normally when someone we know dies, we send a sympathy card, which often asks God to comfort them), why would Paul ask for mercy upon the his house? Paul also ask the Lord to have mercy on him in that day…

Also, no comment on 1 Kings huh?

And no the Roman Catholic Church is far from the occult, silly DHK…even my hard core ex fundy preacher would stop short of lumping the Catholics in with the JWs, Mormons and SDA’s (sorry Bob…)
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