Taught pretrib?

Ed Edwards · Jan 6, 2005

Archeryaddict: "Let me first say that our fellowship
as Christians is not based upon the timing of the
rapture, but upon the finished work of Jesus on the cross."

Amen, Brother Archeryaddict -- Preach it!!

izzaksdad · Jan 6, 2005

In addition to Ed's original question, it would be interesting to know from where you were taught this eschatological stance,ie.: church, Bible School/College, Seminary. Which institutions and what professors.

BTW, it would be interesting to ME anyway.

I-dad

Archeryaddict · Jan 6, 2005

Originally posted by izzaksdad:
In addition to Ed's original question, it would be interesting to know from where you were taught this eschatological stance,ie.: church, Bible School/College, Seminary. Which institutions and what professors.

BTW, it would be interesting to ME anyway.

I-dad
Click to expand...

Mostly from reading the Bible for my self

Ed Edwards · Jan 6, 2005

In 1952 i got saved at a Southern Baptist
revival meeting. The visiting evangelist
taught the pretribulation rapture. I was just
eight. I've studied it a lot on my own,
mostly from various versions of the Bible.
I'm still pretrib, going on 53 years now!

Ed Edwards · Jan 8, 2005

Originally posted by izzaksdad:
In addition to Ed's original question, it would be interesting to know from where you were taught this eschatological stance,ie.: church, Bible School/College, Seminary. Which institutions and what professors.

BTW, it would be interesting to ME anyway.

I-dad
Click to expand...

interesting to
me also!

DeafPosttrib · Feb 10, 2005

Archeryaddict,

I will reply back to you about '16 Proofs of Pretrib' as what you said with scriptures later this week.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

tfisher1 · Feb 10, 2005

I happen to be "riding the fence" on the pre-trib,post-trib debates. Thought I'd throw this link out there for you. This guy seems to layout the Post-trib debate rather well and in great detail. There is a ton of topics on his site but its very interesting, especially if you start from the beginning. Be interesting to see what some think about it.

Post-trib

Todd

Paul33 · Feb 10, 2005

I was taught pre-trib by my wonderful parents.

But I too have laid aside the man-made grid of dispenstationalism and let the Scriptures speak for themselves. No longer pre-trib. It is just not there in Scripture.

I agree with PGrubs.

The tribulation period is Satan's wrath poured out on the world, including the church. The days of distress are cut short right before the end of the tribulation period by the rapture of the Saints throughout all the ages. Then Christ returns to earth to destroy the armies of the nations at the battle of Armegeddon.

God's wrath is poured out when Christ returns to be glorified in his people. See 2 Thess. 1:6-8.

Paul is teaching that we find relief from tribulation/trials when Christ appears in blazing fire with his angels. This is hardly the secret rapture that the pre-tribs articulate. This is the day of the Lord beginning with the bemis seat of Christ and ending with the great white throne judgment.

Doubting Thomas · Feb 10, 2005

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
I was taught pre-trib, but then I read the Bible and learned the truth.

Click to expand...

Amen, brother, preach it! That's my testimony as well.

Ed Edwards · Feb 10, 2005

Originally posted by tfisher1:
I happen to be "riding the fence" on the pre-trib,post-trib debates. Thought I'd throw this link out there for you. This guy seems to layout the Post-trib debate rather well and in great detail. There is a ton of topics on his site but its very interesting, especially if you start from the beginning. Be interesting to see what some think about it.

Post-trib

Todd
Click to expand...

I have argued the pre-trib
position with Tim Warner who arges post-trib.

But let me tell you that most the post-tribs
here are NOT Tim Warner post-tribs.
Tim Warner is a futurist, a dispensationalist,
and a pre-millinnialist, (which he
shares with me) as well as being post-trib.
Most the arguers here at BB
are preteristic (it mostly already happened) or
historists (the tribulation time and
tribulation condition are totally confused)
or Idealistic a-mills

Pretrib pre-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues <-- you are here
1. rapture/resurrection
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

Postrib pre-mill outline:

0. church age continues <-- you are here
2. Tribulation time
1.3. Second Advent of Jesus event
(this is one event with the rapture/resurrection)
4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

Postrib a-mill outline:

0. church age continues - is the same as: <-- you are here
2. Tribulation time - is the same as: <-- you are here
4. spiritual MK=millinnial kingdom <-- you are here
1.3. Second Advent of Jesus event
(this is one event with the rapture/resurrection)
5. new heaven & new earth

Peterist a-mill outline:

0. church age continues <-- you are here
1. rapture/resurrection <done happened
2. Tribulation time <-- or maybe you are here
3. Second Advent of Jesus event <done happend
4. spiritual MK=millinnial kingdom <done happened
5. new heaven & new earth <-- or maybe you are here

Ed recommends the pretrib pre-mill
view as aligning most nearly with Holy Scripture.
Ed recommends:
get Rapture Ready!
Stay Rapture Ready!

OldRegular · Feb 11, 2005

Originally posted by LadyEagle:
Christians have been persecuted since the beginning, however, they have not faced God's wrath. I was speaking of the Great Tribulation which will be an outpouring of God's wrath when the Holy Spirit is removed from this planet. And yes, He will be gone. The Body of Christ and Holy Spirit within the Body of Christ are what is holding back God's wrath upon this evil planet and the total takeover by Satan and his minions! The world has not ever seen what is to come!
Click to expand...

If the Holy Spirit is removed how are people going to be saved after the so-called pre-trib rapture???????

OldRegular · Feb 11, 2005

Originally posted by Archeryaddict:
The Pre-Tribulation Rapture

16 Proofs for a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

Click to expand...

A good outline for a fiction series like the Left Behind series!!!!!

Phillip · Feb 11, 2005

Okay, I have spent most of my time in the gospels or Old Testament. I am sadly ignorant in the prophecy.

Ed you gave me an excellent paper on the differences.

For those of you who are NOT pre-trib, exactly WHAT do you believe?

In other words, do you believe in rapture at 3.5 years into tribulation? (Ed do you think this might be possible?) Or do you believe that the rapture occurs at the end of the tribulation? OR are you preterist and believe that all of this occurred in the first century with the destruction of Jersusalem and there is not really a rapture?

If you are preterist, what will happen in the future? Will the millinium start? Will Christ return?

Sorry, but I just don't get a grasp on what the non-pretriber's are arguing for. Please enlighten me to you beliefs.

Thanks

DeafPosttrib · Feb 11, 2005

2 Peter 3:10-13 telling us, that we are eager looking for new heavens and new earth at Christ's coming. Apostle Peter tells us, this old planet earth shall be burn away on the day of the Lord at Christ's coming. Apostle Peter never teaching anything about future millennial kingdom.

Premill argues 2 Peter 3:8 proves speak of future millennial kingdom because of 'a thousand years' saying so.

Understand, the context of chapter 3 talking about last day scoffers saying, where is the promise of Christ's coming. May of them were expecting Lord might come in their lifetime, but all of them already die. In other word, many people make fun at Christians, not believe the warning of Christ's coming. They think Christ's coming is a joke, just like as what happened to people before flood. They do not believe Noah warning about the coming flood. They were not expecting flood suddenly came and took them away. So, that shall be likewise at Christ's coming like as 'thief in the night'.

People think 1,000 years seem tooooo long time for them, but in the Lord's sight, 1,000 years is tooooo short time for him. Lord's time is different as our time. Lord's mind is different as our mind. 2 Peter 3:8 points that we are with the Lord one day AS a thousand yeears in the heaven. Also, 2 Peter 3:8 points out show how quickly is Christ's coming shall be. Rev. 22:20 is my favorite verse, Christ told John, The Beloved, He promises, He shall come QUICKLY. Means, he will be SURELY come again quickly without delay. This shall be called, 'thief in the night' just like as flood came and suddenly took them away.

This present old planet earth shall be burn away at Lord's coming, and we all are eager looking for new heavens and a new earth immediately follow the day of the Lord occured after the great white throne past.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

Craigbythesea · Feb 11, 2005

2 Thess. 2:1. Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2. that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4. who opposes and exalts himself above every so- called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. (NASB, 1995)

Phillip · Feb 11, 2005

So DeafPostTrib, you are essentially what would be described as "preterist"? Would that be correct?

And you believe that Jesus was describing the destruction of Jerusalem? I do know that the story goes that about one half of the Jews were killed and some people believe this is related to the "One will be left in bed another gone" "one in the field one taken" etc. Plus, it also would clarify why it says to run for the hills without looking back or going back to pack.

Is this pretty much what you believe?

Believe me, I'm not debating with you, just understanding your position. I am far to ignorant of prophecy to put up a good debate either way.

Thanks for your answer.

tfisher1 · Feb 11, 2005

For clarification Ed, I would definately fall in line more with Tim Warners outline of Post-trib, pre-mill... I just can't follow the A-mill interpretation at all... So I guess I would be
a Pre-mill, Post tribber if I was to "hop off the fence"! The timing of the rapture is the only issue I have with standard Pre-trib, Pre-mill, Dispensationalist...Just feel like you have to read too much into verses to come up with Pre-trib rapture...been reading every single thread on this board and all the debates and still haven't come to a solid position. I just felt like Tim Warners site gave the best interpretation I've ever seen of a Post-trib, Premill position so thought I'd throw it out there...
thanks,
Todd

Phillip · Feb 11, 2005

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
2 Thess. 2:1. Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2. that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4. who opposes and exalts himself above every so- called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. (NASB, 1995)

Click to expand...

Good scripture Craig!

Ed Edwards · Feb 11, 2005

Craig still doesn't get it.
We all use the same scriptures for our
eschatological viewpoints.
Here is my pre-written item on this scriputre:

-------------------------------------
The Thessalonians were familiar with
this saying of Jesus which we now find
recorded in Matthew 24:13 (KJV1873):

But he that shall endure unto
the end, the same shall be saved.

But some said of their friend "He got
sick and died before Jesus came to
get him, poor soul."

Paul addresses this problem in
a clearly pretribulation rapture passage
1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:11,
one of the most comforting passages in the
Bible.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:11 (nKJV):

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant,
brethren, concerning those who have fallen
asleep, lest you sorrow as others who
have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and
rose again, even so God will bring with Him
those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
that we who are alive and remain until
the coming of the Lord will by no means
precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend
from heaven with a shout, with the voice
of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain
shall be caught up (raptured)
together with them in the clouds to meet
the Lord in the air. And thus we shall
always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
5:1 But concerning the times and the seasons,
brethren, you have no need that I should
write to you.
2 For you yourselves know perfectly that
the day of the Lord so comes as a thief
in the night.
3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!"
then sudden destruction comes upon them,
as labor pains upon a pregnant woman.
And they shall not escape.
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness,
so that this Day should overtake
you as a thief.
5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day.
We are not of the night nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do,
but let us watch and be sober.
7 For those who sleep, sleep at night,
and those who get drunk are drunk at night.
8 But let us who are of the day be sober,
putting on the breastplate of faith and love,
and as a helmet the hope of salvation.
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath,
but to obtain salvation through our
Lord Jesus Christ,
10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep,
we should live together with Him.
11 Therefore comfort each other and edify
one another, just as you also are doing.

Later the Thessalonians wondered if they
had missed the rapture. Paul corrects this
in a second letter:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 (nKJV):

1 Now, brethren, concerning
the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
and our gathering together to Him,
we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled,
either by spirit or by word or by letter,
as if from us, as though the day of Christ
had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means;
for that Day will not come unless
the falling away comes first,
and the man of sin
is revealed, the son of perdition,

The falling away that comes first
is the Rapture!
Then the man of sin is revealed, the
antichrist. Then the Tribulation period
begins.

There is nothing HAS TO HAPPEN before
the rapture.
Here are some things that could happen
before the rapture but they do NOT
have to happen.

1) The destruction of Damascus (Isaiah 17)
2) the Ezekiel 38 Gog/Magog invastion
(the Ezekiel 39 and Revelation 20:8
Gog/Magog invasion will be after the
Tribulation period)
3) the building of a Temple in Jerusalem
on Mount Zion north of and alongside
the Dome of the Rock.

But again, these things do not HAVE
TO HAPPEN before the rapture, they may
happen after the rapture; they could happen
before the rapture. They do not HAVE TO
HAPPEN before the imminent pretribulation
rapture.

Ed Edwards · Feb 11, 2005

Originally posted by tfisher1:
... I just felt like Tim Warners site gave the best interpretation I've ever seen of a Post-trib, Premill position so thought I'd throw it out there...
thanks,
Todd
Click to expand...

I agree. However, the
various concepts presented here cannot
be presented in that venue.

Here is ed's quick summary of the various
viewpoints:
----------------------------------------
Pretrib pre-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues <-- you are here
1. rapture/resurrection
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

Postrib pre-mill outline:

0. church age continues <-- you are here
2. Tribulation time
1.3. Second Advent of Jesus event
(this is one event with the rapture/resurrection)
4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

Postrib a-mill outline:

0. church age continues - is the same as: <-- you are here
2. Tribulation time - is the same as: <-- you are here
4. spiritual MK=millinnial kingdom <-- you are here
1.3. Second Advent of Jesus event
(this is one event with the rapture/resurrection)
5. new heaven & new earth

Peterist a-mill outline:

0. church age continues <-- you are here
1. rapture/resurrection <done happened
2. Tribulation time <-- or maybe you are here
3. Second Advent of Jesus event <done happend
4. spiritual MK=millinnial kingdom <done happened
5. new heaven & new earth <-- or maybe you are here

Ed recommends the pretrib pre-mill
view as aligning most nearly with Holy Scripture.
Ed recommends:
get Rapture Ready!
Stay Rapture Ready!

Taught pretrib?

Taught pretrib?

i was taught pretrib and still am pretrib

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i was taught another stance but am now pretrib

i was taught another stance and still stand there

I don't understand or i can't deside

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