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TCLRP. What am I? My wife can't tell

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin, Oct 8, 2021.

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  1. Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin

    Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin Well-Known Member
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    The wife and I had a discussion on Election in the car the other day. She believes God chooses, period. I think God chooses based on foreknowledge of each person's decision.

    Total Depravity
    Conditional Election
    Limited Atonement
    Resistible Grace
    Perseverance of the Saints

    1. I believe that all Men are incapable of choosing God on their own.
    2. That God draws both the elect and unelect towards Him.
    3. That God gives both the elect and unelect Prevenient Grace to choose or not to choose.
    4. The elect are chosen through God's foreknowledge of what decision each person would make and that therefore Christ died only for these elect as God knew no others would ever accept Him.
    5. Once you've made your decision to accept Christ, He will not let you go.

    Is this system even possible, or is there a massive blindspot I'm missing? Am I some kind of a Calminian?
     
    #1 Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin, Oct 8, 2021
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    God does not act as a spectator and make things up in response to man.
    Jn 6:37-44 explains that All given by the Father come to the Son.
    No such people who are given but do not come.
     
    #2 Iconoclast, Oct 8, 2021
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  3. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Your third assertion contradicts your first assertion. From there, the rest of your assertions contradict your first assertion.

    It seems you are trying to force a synergy that makes God and man be partners where man cooperates with God.

    That is in opposition to your wife who is monergistic in stating that God is the full cause agent and particular people are effected by God's choosing.
     
    #3 AustinC, Oct 9, 2021
  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    I'd say you're fairly typical for a free willer...
     
    #4 kyredneck, Oct 9, 2021
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  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I think you may align with Classic (Reformation) Arminianism.

    Check out "Grace, Faith, Freewill" by Robert Picirilli. I believe you would agree with his views.
     
    #5 JonC, Oct 9, 2021
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  6. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Question for you. You foreknow what's going to come up in your garden each year. How do you know?



    [hint: Matthew 15:13]
     
    #6 kyredneck, Oct 9, 2021
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  7. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    No offense, I believe just like your wife and my wife believes just like you... Brother Glen:)

    1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
     
    #7 tyndale1946, Oct 9, 2021
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  8. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Demonstrating that "opposites attract," evidently so they can argue. :Wink
     
    #8 RighteousnessTemperance&, Oct 9, 2021
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  9. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    It's refreshing to know that someone can argue about something besides politics on Election Day.:Wink
     
    #9 RighteousnessTemperance&, Oct 9, 2021
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  10. Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin

    Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin Well-Known Member
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    Hmm, I would have to say primarily because I planted it, but I would also have to say secondarily that all the seeds had to respond to light, water, and temps.

    There's also cases where I plant the seeds and they do not respond and never come up.

    That's a really astute point though, I'm going to have to mull it over and go over the sower parable again.
     
    #10 Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin, Oct 9, 2021
  11. Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin

    Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin Well-Known Member
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    Ah, I'm not the only one then! :p That's funny :D:D
     
    #11 Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin, Oct 9, 2021
  12. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Right now my best advice would be to, "keep reading".
    From my experience, a person's understanding of the Bible doesn't come overnight.

    2 Timothy 2:15.
     
    #12 Dave G, Oct 9, 2021
  13. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Don’t forget two important issue concerning the parable of the sower.

    1). Who owns the land?

    2) Who determines the use of the land (what is shallow, rocky, used as the road, …)

    The seed is important, the manner of sowing is important, but the use of the land and how that land is used, is it not up to the owner?
     
    #13 agedman, Oct 9, 2021
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    My personal view:
    Total Depravity
    Conditional Election (Unmerited Election)
    Unlimited Atonement
    Resistible Grace
    Perseverance of the Saints

    But effectively for only the elect:
    Total Depravity
    Uconditional Election
    Limited Atonement
    Irresistible Grace
    Perseverance of the Saints

    My view of Conditional Election is the same thing as the Unconditional Election. Just disagree using that terminology. It being Unmerited Election.

    The Elect are Elect according to the foreknowledge of God. It is not foreseeing. Our election is before the foundation of the the world. We believe the gospel because we are elect. God has always known who are His. But we do not know God until we believe. Our election is wholly unmerited on our part. Hence uncondition on our part. None merit election. Belief is the result of being elect. Not the other way around.
     
    #14 37818, Oct 19, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2021
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