Teaching through Romans

Not getting involved here, but read the following:

Your love shows where your faith is.

I'm not much for 'sound bites', but that is a classic statement and thanks. It is one of the most succinct ways of putting it I have ever read.

 

Hi 2BHisown;

A men

I just want to know how you could tell someone about Christ and that all they need to do is believe when Calvinism complicates it with unalterable predestination and only certain people who are the pre-select group known as elect can be saved anyway.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

A men

I just want to know how you could tell someone about Christ and that all they need to do is believe when Calvinism complicates it with unalterable predestination and only certain people who are the pre-select group known as elect can be saved anyway.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike </font>[/QUOTE]As a matter of fact when I share the gospel that is exactly what I do! I dont go off on a tangent about Calvinism. I find out if the person is aware of their great sinfulness and the need to repent and seek God's mercy! Primary facts, according to the scripture and necessary for them to find the strait narrow gate!
Neither would I get into a profound discussion of Infra/Supralapsarianism. Whats the point? The urgent need today is for people to submit to Christ and ask for His mercy and to be covered with His grace. NOTHING counts until then! We dont teach calculus in kindergarten.
Blessings. We also show people scriptures in Romans and Ephesians. Its what God says that counts!

 

2 of the same post...my bad

read below

 

Hi 2BHizown, nice to meet you.

1st, I have read a few of your post and they are blessings.

You said......
*******************
As a matter of fact when I share the gospel that is exactly what I do! I dont go off on a tangent about Calvinism.
*******************

I have yet to meet the 1st Calvinist that does preach the 5 points to the unsaved. Non-Calvinist teach that we do, yet I think you would agree with me this never happens.

I have yet to see a Calvinist preacher NOT call ALL that sit in church to God. In fact..all ARE called by the preacher. I have yet to hear a Calvinist preacher say....."oops..sorry..salvation is for the elect only..now please go sit back down". The only way any man knows, is if God works in someones heart.

Calvinism is the best way to see the unsaved heart and need. The unsaved need God and they are bind to this fact. The believer is told to GO TELL, not Check and See if they are elect. Tell the World..and God does the calling of the elect.


In Christ...James

 

Thanks for your note! Appreciate your view!
You are so right! Mark 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature v16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
The elect do not have a mark that shows they are elect! We do as commanded above in scripture!
My pastor has rarely used the word "calvinism" in the years I've been a member. He preaches scripture, including sin, God's wrath, the need to repent and ask for mercy and to experience God's great grace! Actually I prayed that the Lord would bring me to such a church and shortly thereafter I was invited to my current church, reformed baptist, expository preaching, no jokes, no current events, pure scripture exegesis that brings one to the whole truth of God! I believe today we are either in or approaching that famine for the hearing of the Word that Amos speaks of in Amos 8:11,12. Most sermons today are topical with only a chance scripture verse to substantiate the chosen topic! The "sermons" are very "me" centered and focused on my relationships, my work, my finances, my family but NOT focused on God's word! We need to get back to basics!!
Blessings!

 

Hi 2BHisown;

So far I haven't found support for Calvinism in either book. For instance In Romans 3:10-18 This passage is used by Calvinist here to show total inability or total depravity. Yet neither is even mention in this passage.

Actually what paul was speaking about was men under the Law. Few men out side of the Jews were under the Law, or tried to live by God's Law.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

How is it you would explain that that the depravity of men isn't even mentioned. Where did it come from? It certainly isn't in Romans 3

Ephesians is used by Calvinist to show election and predestination, but exactly how it gets applied to Calvinism I just don't see. Oh they are there in Ephesians but not as the Calvinist interpret them.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

Indeed. However you did have the kindness to post the remainder of the text that I asked for from Barns - (after some ranting on your part) -- so I thank you for that.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Indeed I am SHOWING how the DETAIL in one section of the quote YOU posted has unraveled your entire argument in Romans 2 because it POINTS TO REAL eternal life as the REWARD and NOT merely "the number of toys one gets in heaven".

That point from YOUR OWN source obliterates your own argument.

Notice that INSTEAD of responding to THAT POINT and trying to actually UNDO what you have done - you rant against me for "noticing your problem" and not being "sufficiently confused to IGNORE the problem I exposed in your argument".

Why even GO there?

Why not just deal with the points raised?

In Christ,

Bob

 

We already SAW the truth of JUSTIFICATION in Rom 2:11-13 "for not the hearers but the DOERS ... SHALL BE JUSTIFIED".

Justification is ALWAYS an act WITHIN the Gospel context of Romans 2:4 "the call to repentance".

Justification is NEVER the goal of a sinless being - for they NEED NO justification. It is only those who have sinned who need justification.

So just as Paul points this rule out in Romans 2 - so also CHRIST points to it in Matt 7 "For NOT the hearers but those who DO the will of My Father will ENTER the kingdom of heaven"

your studied effort has been to make Romans 2:11-13 and Matt 7 CONTRADICT Romans 1:17 -- as if they are not BOTH arguing the SAME truth.

The faith in Romans 1:17 IS the "FAITH THAT WORKS" it is Living Faith that produces what Paul calls "The OBEDIENCE OF FAITH".

Well - at least we can agree on that one point.

But I argue that IT IS THAT SAME point of WORKS that SHOW the fruit of the new birth that you see in Romans 2 AND THE ETERNAL LIFE that is GRANTED (as even Barns points out IN Romans 2)

In Christ,

Bob

 

Indeed. However you did have the kindness to post the remainder of the text that I asked for from Barns - (after some ranting on your part) -- so I thank you for that.

In Christ,

Bob </font>[/QUOTE]i laugh, not in my shame, but in your blindness. I do not take back anything I posted...barns or me. It is you that reads one line..and forgets the rest. This makes me laugh

 

Indeed I am SHOWING how the DETAIL in one section of the quote YOU posted has unraveled your entire argument in Romans 2 because it POINTS TO REAL eternal life as the REWARD and NOT merely "the number of toys one gets in heaven".

That point from YOUR OWN source obliterates your own argument.

Notice that INSTEAD of responding to THAT POINT and trying to actually UNDO what you have done - you rant against me for "noticing your problem" and not being "sufficiently confused to IGNORE the problem I exposed in your argument".

Why even GO there?

Why not just deal with the points raised?

In Christ,

Bob </font>[/QUOTE]Bob...

i laugh...not that you SHOW ANY DETAILS....but pass over the details to get to what you think crushes a calvinist.

I laugh...for it was ME that posted it...and that it was YOU that missed it.

I laugh...for you in your Bindness you still cry victory...yet post words that show other wise.

I laugh ...for you say I pass over things..."IGNORE the problem".....that you "exposed the problem" with my post...when you only address one line from one verse in 4 long post.

I laugh...for there is something BIG..you have missed.

I laugh..for you think i must feel by now i must undo something..yet i say..there is nothing to undo.

these's things and more...would make me laugh.

now...what have you missed? being that i know you fairly well from your post...i will say you will never get this without help.

here is a hint. it has to do with numbers

now that tip was free. the next tip will cost you $1000. I have girls with college bills...so i need to make some extra money.

Next..address OTHER points in the post. do not pass them over.

Have fun...INDEED

In Christ...James

 

Jarthur

What a penetrating response!

When all one can do is cut and paste posts, it is evident that the true genuine spirit of exchange via an impersonal medium of exchange has been replaced by blind denominationalism.

If this was baseball - you just hit a homer!
Lloyd

 

The person who authored the bold print at the top of page 4, I guess is James.

Preaching the 5 points of Calvinism in church will never happen because even a sinner has some concept of the justice of God.

If a preacher were to preach that God only is going to save some and will damn the majority by being autocratic, few would sit and hear this religious error.

If the 5pts. of Calvinism were true it should be shouted by preachers every Sunday. Why be ashamed of this alleged truth?

 

Notice the appeal to text after text -- highlighting the points that the TEXT makes?!!

Your OWN source SHOWS that the REAL meaning of "Eternal life" in romans 2 is NOT limited to "the number of toys in heaven" as you had hoped.

And now you whine that I "notice that"???

Why not just admit to what your OWN source admits to on that one point??

And notice that your own response above was fully devoid of a text to make its point from Romans 2.

Yet your OWN source makes the devastating case against your view here.

In Christ,

Bob

 

This is excellent as it points to MORE than the number of "toys in heaven" but rather TO HEAVEN ITSELF - to ETERNAL LIFE ITSELF -- not merely the number of toys you can have IN that eternal life.

It SHOWS the SUCCESSFUL cases not merely the FAILING Cases in Romans 2!

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/35/1590/2.html#000027

</font>[/QUOTE]James you have done well to gloss over this point so far and ignore the inconvenient fact pointed out from YOUR OWN source.

Those are good "tactics" for Calvinism - but are poor methods for pursuing truth.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Those are good antics James - well worthy of Lloyd's posts so far.

But the point remains from the previous post of mine - those antics are good fodder for Calvinism -- but are poor methods for pursuing truth.

In Christ,

Bob

 

hello bob,

come now...where is your Joy? laugh a little

ok...last chance to get it right before the numbers start rolling in.

after all its about numbers. that's all for now.

I'll be back later today..maybe tomorrow to help you out. Have a good day.


In Christ..James

 

[/QUOTE]

Those are good "tactics" for Calvinism - but are poor methods for pursuing truth

Bob [/QB][/QUOTE]
Calvinism is truth! Sometimes one can possibly practice their errors for so many years that they are no longer open the the deep meaning of scripture! All of calvinism is substantiated with scripture! To suggest that one present all views and allow the congregants to choose for themselves is not preaching truth! Shall we then include all views, ie, Islam, alternate life styles, even agnosticism with the possibility that none of this is true anyway but just consider it all and make your own choice? NO! As Paul told Timothy, Preach the Word!! Be a passionate believer in Truth without wavering to and fro undecided, diluting scripture.
Also, is there a condensed version to some of these posts?
Blessings