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Featured Textual Criticism.

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by 37818, Mar 15, 2019.

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  1. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    To add to this, while based on traditional Textual Critical methods, variant "b" was what most people went with. But CBGM editors(Miink) felt that most of the other variants could only come about if "a", the Syriac and Coptic reading were Orginal, they did this by using the genealogical method. The Coptic/Syriac is translated into Greek and then listed as variant "a".

    It still makes little sense to me. But that is what I remember from Wasserman and Gurry's work on this text

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    #41 McCree79, Mar 18, 2019
  2. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    If you are talking about CBGM editors, they did use the Syriac/Coptic version in the text they produced. However the later editors are still able to make their own choices about what goes in the NA/UBS.

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    #42 McCree79, Mar 18, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
  3. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    The fact that you didn't even interact with what I actually wrote shows you either can't or won't speak intelligently on the subject.
     
    #43 Reformed1689, Mar 18, 2019
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I do not know the reason those words in Luke 4:4 are omitted. Execept there is reason to believe that omission, amoung others are intentional, not accidental, do to the common set of omissions of that manuscript type.
     
    #44 37818, Mar 18, 2019
  5. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    I think you might want to do some research on the topic and get back to us. What makes you think that they were omissions in the manuscripts in question?
     
    #45 Reformed1689, Mar 18, 2019
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Here is how that works, if the original Luke 4:4 omited those words, then they were added. If the orginal reading had those words then they were omitted. The more difficult reading is the reading having the 90.7% manuscript evidence. The shorter and oldest reading is the reading of 0.4% manuscript support. The issues are what suppositions are being made? Which reading is found with more geographical support? How is the reading being weighed?
     
    #46 37818, Mar 18, 2019
  7. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Again you are back to percentages showing you don't understand textual criticism. Do some research and try again. you also might want to cite your percentage sources...
     
    #47 Reformed1689, Mar 18, 2019
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You did not read what I wrote did you? ". . .
    One of the things touted about the New Testament documents is that they are better supported in number than any other ancient documents. And given that those documents are really the sole evidence for a resurrected Christ we can then therefore dismiss them. The dead do not come back to life. That as real knowledge. There are two reasons I remain a Christian. One, I actually know God. Two, it is the phenonena of the gospel of grace - the lost do not understand it. And it is by the gospel of grace by which all genuine Christians know God.
     
    #48 37818, Mar 19, 2019
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Three of the oldest copies of the gospel according to John which omit John 7:53 -John 8:11 have something strange in common. At the end of John 7:52 they each of a puncuation mark. Papyrus 66, Codex Vaticanus and the Codex Sinaticus.
     
    #49 37818, Mar 19, 2019
  10. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    That is great but doesn't actually have anything to do with our current topic.
     
    #50 Reformed1689, Mar 19, 2019
  11. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    Sinatiticus is full of the semicolons you are referring to. How is that strange?

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    #51 McCree79, Mar 19, 2019
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are you saying here then the TR/Kjv needs no updates/revisions? Even Dean Burgoun himself saw the need to update and revise both of them!
     
    #52 Yeshua1, Mar 19, 2019
  13. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    I find that those who are dead set on the TR usually are not for logical reasons, but emotional and traditional reasons.
     
    #53 Reformed1689, Mar 19, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    There are so are logical and into textual criticism, but the KJVO crowd is those like you are speaking on here!
     
    #54 Yeshua1, Mar 19, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    This isnt just limited to the KJVO types. Many in the KJVO camp couldn't care less about the TR, and some of the TR only types dont think the KJV is inerrant, it is just the best. There is a variety of types he would be talking to here.

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    #55 McCree79, Mar 19, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Sinatiticus has a dot at ends of phrases through out. P66 also. But between them at the same places? There is no published study on manuscipt punctuation that I know of. At the end of John 7:52 is one known place.
     
    #56 37818, Mar 19, 2019
  17. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    If they are from the same stemma it would make sense that they have the same punctuation. It would show they are on the same "family tree".

    You bring up a good point. I am not sure if CBGM is looking at punctuation locations and types of punctuation used. It seems like that would be a good idea to help form a global stemma. I will have to check on that.

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    #57 McCree79, Mar 19, 2019
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The assumptions made regarding reasons for variant readings accidental and intentional. The rules by which one might decide what variant is most likey the original reading of said text and why.
     
    #58 37818, Mar 19, 2019
  19. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and you have yet to show an argument for that. I am convinced more than ever you don't understand textual criticism.
     
    #59 Reformed1689, Mar 19, 2019
  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Acts 12:25 has 7 variants.
    ". . . to Antioch . . ."
    ". . . from Jerusalem . . ." (apo)
    ". . . from Jerusalem to Antioch . . ."
    ". . . from Jerusalem . . ." (ex) TR, A & א
    ". . . from Jerusalem to Antioch . . ."
    ". . . to Jerusalem . . ." B & Majorty Text
    ". . . to Jerusalem to Antioch . . ."

    Now one is the original text, apparently the others are intentional changes. Now I am peusuaded that "to Antioch" is likely the orginal reading, it has only 5.1% if the manuscript evidence. Can you figure out why I might think that? (This is not origial with me either)
     
    #60 37818, Mar 19, 2019
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