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Thank Calvin for your freedom

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Luke2427, Dec 17, 2010.

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  1. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    Oh John Calvin! Oh John Calvin!
    Luke is truly in love with you.
    Oh John Calvin! Oh John Calvin!
    Luke is truly in love with you.
    Not only did you found this land,
    but you did it from the grave.
    Oh John Calvin! Oh John Calvin!
    Luke is truly in love with you.
     
    #41 matt wade, Dec 17, 2010
  2. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    This has to be the most asinine thread in the history of the BB.


    :BangHead:


    No wonder people don't want to post here anymore.
     
    #42 Amy.G, Dec 17, 2010
  3. Old Union Brother

    Old Union Brother New Member

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    I agree.....If you notice I'm posting but not debating....
     
    #43 Old Union Brother, Dec 17, 2010
  4. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Yes. And I'm glad you're still here with us. We need you!

    :1_grouphug:
     
    #44 Amy.G, Dec 17, 2010
  5. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I bet Servetus thanked Calvin for his freedom

    Now that I think about it, didn't a young Brook Shields thank her Calvins for her "freedom"? :laugh:
     
    #45 webdog, Dec 17, 2010
  6. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    #46 Luke2427, Dec 17, 2010
  7. RAdam

    RAdam New Member

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    I can't help but think of the first chapter of 1 Corinthians. Instead of people saying they are of Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, we have people saying whether or not they are of Calvin. I'll ask the same questions Paul asked. Was Calvin crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Calvin? Quit following a man and follow the Lord.

    Calvin is not someone to be adored. His spiritual successors persecuted our baptist forefathers. Should I thank him for that?
     
    #47 RAdam, Dec 17, 2010
  8. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Not bad but the rhythm is off a bit.
     
    #48 Luke2427, Dec 17, 2010
  9. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    It's true. I figured you wouldn't like it.

    I think you ought to google it and learn so that you will not disrespect your history or your forfathers.
     
    #49 Luke2427, Dec 17, 2010
  10. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    You recall in that text that there was also a group who Paul reprimanded who pompously and piously slipped their holier than thou thumbs under their lapels and said- "I am of Jesus!!!!"

    No one is saying they are OF any man. We are making a point that only ignorant people would spit in the eye of Calvinism or call it a scourge when those people are Americans who enjoy freedom and a nation that came to them via John Calvin, the Pilgrims, the Puritans and mostly Calvinistic forefathers.
     
    #50 Luke2427, Dec 17, 2010
  11. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    So, is it OK for non-Americans to spit in the eye of Calvinism and call it a scourge?
     
    #51 matt wade, Dec 17, 2010
  12. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    It makes better sense. It makes NO sense for AMERICANS to do it though.

    Americans can disagree with it- but they show themselves to be stupid and uneducated about their heritage, or to be despisers of their heritage if THEY call Calvinism a scourge.
     
    #52 Luke2427, Dec 17, 2010
  13. RAdam

    RAdam New Member

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    And we are making the point that Calvin didn't give us this freedom. Calvin would have set up a church state and persecuted those who didn't agree with him. That's exactly what his successors did. Calvinism didn't give us anything. Baptists, who were not followers of Calvin, are the ones who fought for religious freedom. They were the ones who everyone persecuted. Quit giving credit to Calvin, he doesn't deserve it on this issue.
     
    #53 RAdam, Dec 17, 2010
  14. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    I figure you are right to some degree. Calvin would not have set up the exact kind of governement that we have, perhaps.

    But he is directly repsonsible for the founding of America. That is not up for debate. You'd might as well argue that water is not wet. You are arguing against a plain and simple historical fact.

    And if you think Baptists did any more fighting for our freedom than Presbyterians- you are sadly mistaken.

    And MANY of those Baptists- if not MOST- were Calvinists.

    Calvin does deserve credit as many historians testify. Does what historians say count for anything in your book?
     
    #54 Luke2427, Dec 17, 2010
  15. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    This is an Excerpt taken from Lorraine Boettner's book Calvinism in History.

     
    #55 Luke2427, Dec 17, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2010
  16. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    John Calvin was long dead when this country was formed. He had nothing to do with the founding of it anymore than I did.
     
    #56 Amy.G, Dec 17, 2010
  17. BobinKy

    BobinKy New Member

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    Paul writes to Timothy...

    As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith. The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk. They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm. (1 Timothy 1:3-7; NIV 1984)​

    ...Bob
     
    #57 BobinKy, Dec 17, 2010
  18. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Wycliff was long dead by the time of the Reformation but he is called the Morning Star of the Reformation.

    Bancroft is a respected historian. Bancroft, who far though he was from being Calvinistic in his own personal convictions, simply calls Calvin "the father of America," and adds: "He who will not honor the memory and respect the influence of Calvin knows but little of the origin of American liberty."

    That ought to be enough. If not read the post above your own. If that is not enough- then you are simply obstinately opposed to any truth that doesn't sit well with you.
     
    #58 Luke2427, Dec 17, 2010
  19. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    We are familiar with the text. What is your point?
     
    #59 Luke2427, Dec 17, 2010
  20. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    No. I'm obstinately opposed to anything that isn't truth. Falsehoods do not sit well with me.
     
    #60 Amy.G, Dec 17, 2010
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