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The 9th commandment

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Iconoclast, Oct 27, 2019.

  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Thomas Watson wrote this;


    The Ten Commandments 13. The Ninth Commandment

    By Thomas Watson


    Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.' Exod 20: 16.

    THE tongue which at first was made to be an organ of God's praise, is now become an instrument of unrighteousness. This commandment binds the tongue to its good behaviour. God has set two natural fences to keep in the tongue, the teeth and lips; and this commandment is a third fence set about it, that it should not break forth into evil. It has a prohibitory and a mandatory part: the first is set down in plain words, the other is clearly implied.

    I. The prohibitory part of the commandment, or, what it forbids in general. It forbids anything which may tend to the disparagement or prejudice of our neighbour. More particularly, two things are forbidden in this commandment.

    [1] Slandering our neighbour. This is a sin against the ninth commandment.


    The scorpion carries his poison in his tail, the slanderer carries his poison in his tongue. Slandering is to report things of others unjustly.'


    They laid to my charge things that I knew not.' Psa 35: 11.

    It is usual to bring in a Christian beheaded of his good name. They raised for a slander of Paul, that he preached Men might do evil that good might come of it.' We be slanderously reported; and some affirm that we say, "Let us do evil, that good may come".' Rom 3: 8.

    Eminence is commonly blasted by slander. Holiness itself is no shield from slander. The lamb's innocence will not preserve it from the wolf.


    Christ, the most innocent upon earth, was reported to be a friend of sinners. John the Baptist was a man of a holy and austere life, and yet they said of him, He has a devil.' Matt 11: 18. The Scripture calls slandering, smiting with the tongue. Come, and let us smite him with the tongue.' Jer 18: 18. You may smite another and never touch him.

    As it is a sin against this commandment to raise a false report of another, so it is to receive a false report before we have examined it. Lord, who shall dwell in thy holy hill?' Psa 15: 1.He that backbiteth not, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour;' ver.

    3. We must not only not raise a false report, but not take it up. He that raises a slander, carries the devil in his tongue; and he that receives it, carries the devil in his car.

    [2] The second thing forbidden in this commandment is false witness. Here three sins are condemned: (1) Speaking. (2) Witnessing. (3) Swearing that which is false, contra proximum [against your neighbour].

    (1) Speaking that which is false. Lying lips are abomination to the Lord.' Prov 12: 22. To lie is to speak that which one knows to be an untruth. There is nothing more contrary to God than a lie. The Holy Ghost is called the Spirit of Truth.' 1 John 4: 6. Lying is a sin that does not go alone; it ushers in other sins.
    Where there is a lie in the tongue, the devil is in the heart. Why has Satan filled thine heart to lie?' Acts 5: 3.


    Lying is a sin that unfits men for civil society. How can you converse or bargain with a man when you cannot trust a word he says? This sin highly provokes God.


    Ananias and Sapphire were struck dead for telling a lie. Acts 5: 5. The furnace of hell is heated for liars. Without are sorcerers, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.' Rev 22: 15.

    ' The character of a man that shall go to heaven, is that He speaketh the truth in his heart.' Psa 15: 2.



    (2) That which is condemned in the commandment is, witnessing that which is false. Thou shalt not bear false witness.' There is a twofold bearing false witness: 1. There is bearing false witness for another. 2. Bearing false witness against another.

    Bearing false witness for another; as when we give our testimony for a person who is criminal and guilty, and we justify him as if he were innocent. Which justify the wicked for reward.' Isa 5: 23. He that seeks to make a wicked man just, makes himself unjust.

    It is bearing false witness against another, when we accuse him in open court falsely. This is to imitate the devil, who is the accuser of the brethren.' Though the devil is no adulterer, yet he is a false witness.

    Have you ever known such a person to exist among any church you were in?

    How did you deal with this sin?
     
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  2. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    I've been noticing a lot of politicians that don't seem concerned about this commandment.
     
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  3. MartyF

    MartyF Well-Known Member

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    Not that I recall.
     
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I have seen church members get involved in accusations against one another, both bitterly contesting the other is wrong (I'm not getting into details, but it involved a business transaction). My advice was that they consider the fruit (which is singular) of the Spirit. In this case they were both wrong – not because they were lying (both believed their convictions against the other) but because of the fruit they were exhibiting towards each other. Both should have forgiven the other without the agenda to prove the other wrong. That is what Christians do. Instead each demanded the other "repent". They were walking according to the flesh and in prideful arrogance, keeping an account of perceived wrongs.

    As such they should have fallen under "church discipline". There were remarks (this was not a quite issue) in a few sermons but no one actually approached these two and explained their sin. In the end both both families moved their membership (but their sinfulness was never really addressed).
     
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  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Members are also to take an active part in not receiving the false report. This would cut down on this sin,
     
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  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I guess this would often be participating in gossip (whether the information is true or not). And yes, I agree that is sinful. It is not the fruit of the Spirit but appealing to the flesh.
     
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  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    In a sermon on this, the pastor offered that when a person comes with such claims that we should be vigilant to ask, some clarifying questions. Such as; did you hear them say it firsthand? Is this exactly what they said? or did you hear this second hand?
    Sometimes a person might not start out wanting to be a liar, but they take it upon themselves to speak for the other person and say things that person would not say or believe. This turns out to be such a lie as to undermine the person's character and it becomes exceedingly wicked.
     
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  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    It goes deeper than this, I think.

    It does not matter if the other person is lying. Why are these (in my example) trying to prove the other a liar? How does one know the other is lying? Why does it even matter?

    In the example I provided both sides believed they were right and were wronged by the other person. An obedient Christian would have simply dismissed the wrong and explained their feelings to the other person without condemnation. It does not matter if one person was really wrong because it was while we were still sinners that Christ died for us.

    We have lost all rights to complain about being wronged in this life.

    I think that is where the pastor should stand. He should not try to determine who was lying (if anyone, as a "lie" signifies a motive we cannot truly know), or who is false. He should encourage both to set aside the matter and if they will not bring both before the congregation - not to determine who is correct but to encourage both to turn from condemning a brother or sister and walk in the Spirit.

    In the example I provided it got ugly. There was gossip and the church split (the business deal involved the church in a round about way). There was no right or wrong as both sides were worldly and seeking worldly vindication rather than simply forgiving the perceived wrong and getting to Kingdom work.
     
  9. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    Nice to see a thread based on scripture rather than political opinions. As this is a Baptist board and in my opinion threads should be mainly be bible based.
     
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  10. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    When our church lost its building in 2010 we moved to a independent baptist church in the next town. All seemed OK until - as pianist - I wanted to sign a complete Psalm from the "Praise!" hymnbook which we had used in the previous church. Apparently he'd rejected Praise! because of a review in a Christian newspaper. Our previous church had been in close fellowship with its compilers - its crime was to revise old hymns to remove archaic language.
    Pastor accused me (10 minutes before the service) of being a trouble maker & said he'd been warned about me from other pastors.
    I ignored him. We sang the Psalm 118. We met with the church secretary afterwards.
    Pastor showed a copy letter he had received warning him against trusting me & making all sorts of accusations about me. He'd forgotten the name of the sender. They concerned people who had worked with the church - trainee pastors. Most were false or based on misunderstandings.
    The matter was completely dropped without any further comment & I continued in the church as a trusted elder & musician, still choosing the hymns.
     
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  11. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    You listen and take note on paper in front of them and then ask if they have addressed it with the person involved and how about we do that right now.

    Make a direct communication a game rule and counsel and pray all you want with them, as long as they know this is the other person's business, to be in the loop.

    It'll get dealt with, or it'll get shut up.

    Excellent post and Word and concern.
     
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  12. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Most think that smoke doesn’t occur without some fire or smoldering being evident.

    The problem is that too many see steam and think it is smoke!

    The fiery discord between Paul and Barnabas was as the force of steam pushing the giants of the Antioch church in two different directions.

    The history of those two, and especially how Barnabas originally initiated the working union and then the two being pushed apart, is fascinating to me.
     
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  13. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    "Alan Gross,

    Yes, good idea! If this kind of response happens on a consistent basis, the incidence of such sin will be curtailed over time.

    This protects the person involved. If they are guilty the facts will become manifest.

    Dealt with openly and honestly.
    Proverbs 27:5
    Open rebuke is better than secret love.
     
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree. There is a danger when issues like this are not addressed. Sin begats sin and often precieved wrongs go unresolved and produce an ungodly attitude in all involved. Bitterness takes root and colors perception. This is what occurred with my example. It began as a small matter but as a result the church split and a few years later the pastor left the ministery discouraged and bitter over the situation.
     
  15. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    Most churches I have been in have the preacher choosing the hymns on themes that supports the sermon.
     
  16. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    I never once worried about that.
     
  17. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Jon, I have been pondering about the phrase, "Sin begets sin...."

    At first, I agree, (and still do).

    However, how does that work? Does sin have a partner, a birthing process, gestation period?

    This could be an interesting topic of which a thread could be based.

    But, not for me.

    Perhaps our Lord gave us a bit of insight when He spoke of one who had cleaned up their life, and the demons finding it clean went and got a number of friends so that the later part of the man was worse off.

    I appreciate you giving this old man something to ponder.

    :)
     
  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I think it is giving into sin that creates more sin (I suppose our willing participation would be the "birthing partner").

    I was thinking about what sin dies to a person. I believe if allowed sin consumes a man. We are freed from the bondage of sin but I have seen professing Christians become obsessed with sin until it not only damages their witness hut it destroys their lives.

    I think this is evident with sins like lust and drunkenness. But perhaps it is less evident with sins like harboring anamonisity and gossip. I have seen people become bitter, haters of other people and self-righteous in their views over clinging to precieved wrongs they believe a brother has done.

    In my example, it started out as a simple disagrerment which could have been settled if the persons involved sought after the interest of the other. Then it became a hated which led to slander. It was unaddressed and destroyed a ministry and a church.
     
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  19. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    THat was NOT the point of my post, David. I was concerned with the slanderous attacks on my integrity after nearly 50 years of service in the area.

    A little more detail -

    We called a local schoolteacher as co-pastor. He used the method of Absalom to discredit the long-serving pastor & promote himself. Before that meeting I had questioned unauthorised payments to him of several thousands. He forced an election, contrary to church rules & won the sole pastorate. Soon he had sold the manse, taking 1/2 the proceeds - in lieu of stipend. He was a full-time head of dept. & had his own home already. He then sold the church hall to Sikhs, & the church building to a Pentecostal group. The proceeds were to a "'Local' Evangelical Trust" which soon used up its resources of about £200,000. A trip to India was included. THose faithful to the old Pastor regrouped in a borrowed Brethren Gospel Hall. We managed to get £5,000 from the trust for a trainee pastor.

    I'm fairly sure that he was a source of slander.

    The trainee Pastor fell out with a long-serving group of Christians of different ethnicity - he & they from South Asia. He spoke against them at an elders' meeting. Next Sunday he preached against those opposing his ministry in exactly the same way as he had spoken in the elders' meeting - & declared very emotionally that he had no individuals in mind, when it was clear that he had - obviously lying. After the service I privately rebuked him. We considered his ministry with us had ended. Within a few weeks he began a ministry as Pastor in a church many miles away - but they did not ask us for a reference. (Which I was pleased about - would could I have said?)

    As the Pastor of the church we moved to did not pursue the matter, I has happy to let the matter drop & continue serving the church & the Lord. I did not name those I thought had been responsible for the slander, nor did I have to answer the charges against me.
     
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