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Featured The Abomination Of Desolation

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by robycop3, Jan 14, 2022.

  1. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Here's where the abomination of desolation(Hereafter referred to as the "AOD") is referred to in Scripture:

    Daniel 11:31And forces shall be mustered by him,(the beast/antichrist) and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.

    Daniel 12:11“And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.

    Matt. 24:15“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),

    Mark 13:14So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

    So, we see the AOD is PLACED, SET UP, & WILL STAND. And I believe the main component of the AOD is:

    Rev. 13: 14 And he(the false prophet) deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived.

    I believe that statue will be what is set up in the coming temple. We have the model, or "type" for it in the original AOD when Antiochus Epiphanes, in the 160s BC, set up a statue of Zeus in the old temple & sacrificed a pig upon the altar. Differences are that the beast will have a statue of himself in the temple, & he won't sacrifice anything, instead, halting all sacrifices & declaring himself God.

    So, the AOD will be 3 things:

    1.) a statue of the beast/antichrist that'll be set up in the new temple in Jerusalem that the Jews will build.

    2.) The beast will halt all sacrifices in that temple.

    3.) Worst of all, while sitting in the temple, the beast will declare himself to be God.
     
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  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    No, what we see is you trying to be tricky and leave out the key passages that destroys this tale of fiction. AOD has already occurred. It's such a simple hermeneutic to compare scripture with scripture and let it interpret itself:

    15 When therefore ye see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand),
    16 then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains:
    34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24

    14 But when ye see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not (let him that readeth understand), then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains:
    30 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished. Mk 13

    20 But when ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand.
    21 Then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains; and let them that are in the midst of her depart out; and let not them that are in the country enter therein.
    32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21
     
    #2 kyredneck, Jan 14, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022
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  3. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Nice try, but the AOD simply hasn't yet happened yet. No statue was set up in the temple after Antiochus Epiphanes did it in the 160s BC. And "this generation" is the one that'll see ALL the eschatological events, including Jesus' return.
     
  4. Cathode

    Cathode Member

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    Well Catholics see the daily sacrifice of the Mass was forced to halt globally for first time since the Roman persecutions recently. But even the Roman persecutions weren’t across the board like this.
    So when the daily Mass is banned and the Eucharist removed from the tabernacles, that will be our abomination of desolation.

    Daily Mass is the only daily sacrifice offered in Christianity, so I think Daniels prophecy is allegorical of that. Since the Jewish priesthood was destroyed and they can no longer do sacrifices.
    There’s only Rabbinical Judaism left today.

    So by deduction it’s related to the Mass for us.

    The COVID government over reach showed the powers that be, that they can shut down the daily sacrifice of the Mass. A trial run for when they want to completely abolish it globally.

    So when you the daily mass abolished and churches are set up with image of global leader, start counting days.
     
    #4 Cathode, Jan 15, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2022
  5. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    The daily sacrifice mentioned in Scripture will be in the temple in Jerusalem.
     
  6. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    You base your views on several assumptions. You admit that you believe the AOD will be a statue in a coming temple. One of the problems with your view is that Scripture never tells us a third temple will be built. Another problem is that neither Daniel nor Jesus said that the AOD would be a statue. You assume the image of the Beast from Revelation 13:14 is the AOD, but that's just a guess at best.
    Finally, as @kyredneck has pointed out, Jesus plainly told His disciples the AOD would happen within their generation. Your main defense is that these events simply haven't happened yet. According to Jesus, they have.
     
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  7. Cathode

    Cathode Member

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    Two issues with that. There is no temple. And the Jewish Priesthood is destroyed. Only Rabbinical Judaism exists today.

    There is also the understanding that the Mark itself is the Abomination of Desolation, defiling each human being as God’s Temple. The beasts mark and name in that temple desolates it, and it destines each human being that takes it to sure damnation.

    There is also the understanding that abolishing the daily sacrifice, is the abolishing of Christianity, and the commandment of Christ.

    “And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily”

    This is the daily sacrifice of the followers of Christ, and by what they are known. The life of self denial and their struggle with sin, ( the Cross ).

    Reading this Scripture according to the Spiritual understanding of these events.
     
    #7 Cathode, Jan 16, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022
  8. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    The Jews fully intend to build a new temple in Jerusalem when it won't start WW3. And they'll choose priests from among Jews surnemed "Cohen".

    That's not true. The mark has to do with commerce & will almost-certainly be some sorta microchip. The AOD will be done by the beast/antichrist when he sets up a statue of himself in the new temple & declares himself God.

    That understanding is also untrue. When the Jews build their new temple, they'll resume the old system of sacrifices in it. They're already breeding the animals, such as red heifers, to be used in temple rites.

    Some Christians, same as non-Christians, live a life of ease, while others are hardscrabble. It depends upon the individual burdens God gives to each.
     
  9. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Scripture speax of a 3rd temple in a roundabout way. paul, writing what Jesus told him, wrote that the man of sin, who will also be the beast/antichrist, will enter the temple & declare himself to be God. That didn't happen in the old temple. And we see in Rev that he will be assisted by a miracle-working false prophet. While in the temple, after the main man declares himself God, the FP will demand everyone worship him & his statue. Nothing like that occurred in the old temple, so there'll be a new one built.

    And no, Jesus did NOT say those events would happen in that generation. He said the generation that sees them begin would see them all. Besides, those events include the great trib,& Jesus plainly said He'd return IMMEDIATELY AFTER that trib. So, as Jesus hasn't yet returned, the trib hasn't yet occurred.
     
  10. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    "Roundabout way" means you are guessing when Scripture speaks for itself. Audience relevance shows exactly what Jesus meant - "when YOU (His immediate audience) see" the things He is talking about. If Jesus meant something else, He would have said so. He could have said "the generation that sees those signs", or "this type of generation". Of all the times Jesus speaks about "this generation", this is the only one where you try to change it to mean something else.

    Your biased view that none of this has happened yet has put blinders on you. I allow the Scriptures to speak for themselves, and see that Jesus meant exactly what He said. Is it really smart to reinterpret the words of Scripture to fit your narrative. I will rely on what Scripture says plainly instead of what you guess it means. Ironically, "futurists" insist we interpret Scripture "literally" until the literal interpretation doesn't fit their view.
     
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  11. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I have 3 sets of encyclopediae & several other works of ancient history in front of me. NONE of them have the occurrence of the eschatological events in them; they all say they're future, with some secular books saying they're apocryohal.

    Please show us FROM HISTORY when those events occurred, especially the physical, visible return of JESUS, seen by all.
     
  12. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    History gives us the details of the Jewish Wars which included the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in AD 70. This destruction was the AOD. Luke 21:20 tells us that the AOD happened when Jerusalem was surrounded by armies. Note that the language of Luke 21:20-24 is nearly identical to that of Matthew 24:15-22, so they are clearly describing the same events.

    Matthew 24:30 says that "the SIGN of the Son of Man will appear...and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of Heaven". This is a "sign", otherwise Jesus would have just said that the Son of Man will appear, and left out "the sign". What was this sign? The destruction of Jerusalem was the sign that the Son of Man had come in judgment. "They will see" is also understood as "they will know", or "they will understand". Again, let the Scriptures interpret themselves.
     
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  13. Cathode

    Cathode Member

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    They can’t rebuild the Temple without valid prophetic revelation, the second temple was rebuilt only due to the guidance of the prophets of the time.

    People have already tried to rebuild the Temple, check out the 362 Ad attempt by Emperor Julian, who paid an enormous sum to rebuilt the Temple. Earthquakes began first destroying the construction and things got progressively worse until fire blasted out of the foundations destroying the work and killing workers, it was too dangerous to even approach, they gave up in defeat.
    The biggest obstacle against it is God Himself, it’s not going to happen.

    One old Church Father was approached by anxious believers alarmed telling him that people were rebuilding the Temple. He didn’t even raise an eyebrow or show the least concern because he knew from scripture that the attempt would fail.
     
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  14. Cathode

    Cathode Member

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    If you want an exotic romantic notion to pursue, you would sooner find Bigfoot than ever see the Temple rebuilt.
    Get a good solid 375 magnum double rifle, bedroll and tracking dogs and you’re in business.
     
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  15. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Sir, you have quite an imagination. The Luke 21:20 assertion is wrong. Remember, "desolation" means complete general destruction, & the destruction of J was part of the "days of vengeance" Jesus pronounced against that generation of Jews. But let's let Daniel himself put the "Luke 21:20 thingie" to rest-
    Daniel 11:31 And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.
    That's exactly what happened in the 160s BC when Antiochus Epiphanes came with a small army & defiled(not "destroyed") the temple by setting up a statue of Zeus in it & sacrificing a pig on the altar. So, the event Jesus referred to will be similar to that. And we see it mentioned further in 2 Thess. 2 & Rev. 13 when the man of sin(who will also be the beast/antichrist) will sit in the temple & proclaim himself God. That, & the statue of himself that he will have set up in the temple & Satan, thru the false prophet, will cause to speak will be about as big an abomination as there can be.

    What happened when J was first surrounded by Vespasian's army in 66AD? Before they could breach the wall of the city, Nero was overthrown by Galba, & Vespasian headed back to the city of Rome with his army, who wished to make him Caesar. Some 8 months passed before Titus returned to J with an army that destroyed J & the temple. So, there was not the rapid flight from J that Jesus said to take when the AOD would be seen. THAT'S BECAUSE THERE WAS NO AOD AT THAT TIME.

    More pret imagination. The sign will be a cross, or something else that everyone will know is a sign of Jesus. And EVERYONE will see Him, as per Rev. 1:7. Can you tell us when THAT happened? It should be documented in every history book if it's already occurred.
     
  16. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    The Jews already have everything ready to build a new temple quickly. What'll ya say if you're still here when it IS built?
     
  17. Cathode

    Cathode Member

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    It won’t be rebuilt, it will only end in disaster. Offering God animal sacrifice after He Sacrificed His only Son, is a huge blasphemy.

    I feel sorry for the workers who attempt it already.

    I’d merely get the popcorn ready and watch the great stupid happen.

    Honestly mate, get that 375, go for Bigfoot.
     
    #17 Cathode, Jan 16, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022
  18. Cathode

    Cathode Member

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    “A son honors his father, and a servant his master. But if I am a father, where is My honor? And if I am a master, where is your fear of Me?” says the LORD of Hosts to you priests who despise My name.

    “But you ask, ‘How have we despised Your name?’7By presenting defiled food on My altar.

    But you ask, ‘How have we defiled Youd?’

    By saying that the table of the LORD is contemptible.8When you offer blind animals for sacrifice, is it not wrong? And when you present the lame and sick ones, is it not wrong? Try offering them to your governor! Would he be pleased with you or show you favor?” asks the LORD of Hosts.9“But ask now for God’s favor. Will He be gracious? Since this has come from your hands, will He show you favor?” asks the LORD of Hosts.10“Oh, that one of you would shut the temple doors, so that you would no longer kindle useless fires on My altar! I take no pleasure in you,” says the LORD of Hosts, “and I will accept no offering from your hands.11For My name will be great among the Gentiles, from where the sun rises to where it sets. In every place, incense and pure offerings will be presented in My name, because My name will be great among the Gentiles,” says the LORD of Hosts. 12“But you profane it when you say, ‘The table of the Lord is defiled, and as for its fruit, its food is contemptible.’13You also say: ‘Oh, what a nuisance!’ And you turn up your nose at it,” says the LORD of Hosts.

    “You bring offerings that are stolen, lame, or sick! Should I accept these from your hands?” asks the LORD.

    14“But cursed is the deceiver who has an acceptable male in his flock and vows to give it, but sacrifices a defective animal to the Lord. For I am a great King,” says the LORD of Hosts, “and My name is to be feared among the Gentiles. “ Malachi 1

    The Jews turned up their noses at Christ’s sacrifice, the Pure Lamb of God, The Son Honouring The Father.

    Any animal sacrifice offered to The Father after that is repugnant, especially after showing contempt for The Son, Christ and His Sacrifice.

    If people want to invite direct Wrath from The Eternal Father, try rebuild the Temple and start offering animal sacrifice.
    “But if I am a father, where is My honor? ”

    “We have been devastated, but we will rebuild the ruins,” this is what the LORD of Hosts says: “They may build, but I will demolish.”

    “For My name will be great among the Gentiles”
     
  19. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the pig sacrifice by Antiochus IV Epiphanes was foreshadow of the AOD. I also agree that that the desolation was included in the "days of vengeance", but this also included the AOD of Matthew 24:15. When you compare Luke's version of the Olivet Discourse with Matthew's, you see they are describing the same thing. In Matthew, Jesus told His disciples "when you see" the AOD, and in Luke, Jesus told them "when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies". In Luke's gospel, Jesus is defining the abomination that causes desolation. The Roman armies carried idols (images of their gods) wherever they went. These idols of foreign gods are an abomination to the Jews. The Roman army was an abomination to the Jews because of the idol images they carried. Furthermore, the Roman army literally CAUSED the desolation of Jerusalem. Hopefully, this has put this question to rest.

    2 Thessalonians 2:4 says that the Man of Lawlessness will "take his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God". This could easily refer to emperor worship. The Man of Lawlessness was very likely Nero. Note that in verse 6 that he was restrained "now", which is repeated verse 7. Furthermore, verse 7 tells us that "the mystery of lawlessness is already at work". Unless you change the meaning of "now" and "already", these are past events - when Herod's temple was still standing.

    Let's clear up your misunderstanding of Revelation 13. The beast out of the sea (v. 1) is Rome. The beast coming up out of the earth (aka False Prophet) is apostate Israel. The image of the beast was possibly an image of the current emperor. Since Vespasian was emperor when Jerusalem was destroyed, it was probably his image. The image of the beast may also refer to Titus, as a representative of the beast.

    Revelation 1:7 begins with a quote from Daniel 7:13 - "Behold, He is coming with the clouds". Clouds symbolize judgment. Verse 7 continues with a reference from Zechariah 12:10 "every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him". Who were those who pierced Jesus? The Jews. Which tribes will mourn? The Jewish tribes. Apostae Israel mourned when Jesus "came in judgment" in AD 70. History records that these events were fulfilled in the Jewish Wars ending in AD 70. Unfortunately, you prefer to believe the fantasy of the futurist views.
     
  20. Cathode

    Cathode Member

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    Scripture is for all time and Eternity. In scripture we see a recurring narrative, the same struggle against God revisited in each age. But this brother, is the final confrontation, a decisive moment where our Lord Jesus Christ brings an end to evil, wherever it is globally. And brings His people finally to His Sabbath rest. He alone is The Lord Most High.

    Students of the Word all see this recurring narrative, they see it, they expect it as fishermen examine the weather and navigate by the stars in the Heavens.

    Many say ‘ these words and warnings don’t apply to me and mine, these are for a different age, a different people’ No, take great care that you do not fall into this trap, you do not know the hour of our LORD’s visitation.
     
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