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The Absolute Equality of Jesus and The Father

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Nov 18, 2020.

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  1. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Where does this back up your claim that Gentiles were in the majority in the synagogue at Thessalonica.
    Your the one who claimed this first show me where scripture says this. It was Paul's custom to preach in the synagogues, When he preached in Athens he preached directly to Gentiles because there were no synagogues.Why not see if he called then elect or even mentioned it.
    MB
     
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Give an example, quote me. Cite the post.
     
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Your view. While that might be true, the Scripture does not tell us this custom or to preach to gentiles.
     
    #83 37818, Nov 20, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Post 33, was just asking for clarification
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Paul preached in them until he made the final move towards going to the gentiles primarily!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    @SavedByGrace
    This thread "The Absolute Equality of Jesus and The Father," is on its face patentedly false.
    Jesus = The Father
    The Father = Jesus
    It amounts to modalism as stated.
    It is my understanding that you are not a modalist.
    And I would think we are in agreement that in the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ with His Father they are the one and the same God. Not two gods.
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That was page 2 and was not even a post by either you or me. Actually quote and cite from a said post. Do not be so lazy. Maybe if you paid better attention you would not have felt the need to ask of me such a dumb question after these years here you have read my posts on the BB. FYI I contend God must be a Trinity of Persons, any other type of God cannot exist.
    .
     
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I did back up my claim. You dismiss it. I cannot make you hear what you refuse to hear or understand.
    I want to understand your view. Please start a thread, "Why only people of Isreal can be God's elect," or of a title that better presents your view. And present why gentiles can never be called elect. Address the texts that those like myself hold that gentiles can be elect and why they cannot mean that. Understand?
     
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    your "theology" is patentedly false! you KEEP reading things into what I write? is it because you do not understand what the Holy Trinity is? I can explain in very easy language
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Well then it may be we understand the meaing of words differently. Such as the term "absolute."
    You do not understand my Biblical Theology by reason, you said of me, "your 'theology' is patentedly false!"
    And "you KEEP reading things into what I write?"
    The Apostle Paul wrote, Romans 2:1, "Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things."
    Now this would applies to me as well as you, would it not?
    Then there is this:

    Debate the subject - NOT the individual.
     
  11. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    It is not true that when Paul "preached in Athens he preached directly to Gentiles because there were no synagogues."

    There was at least one synagogue in Athens and Paul did reason with the Jews in that synagogue:

    Acts 17:16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry. 17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.
     
  12. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Ok I stand corrected how ever Paul did not teach there but he did on mars hill He just disputed with the Jews. At there synagogue There were no discussions with the Gentiles present at the synagogue. Which I believe proves my point. When Paul taught in the synagogue there were no Gentiles there. Election does not apply To Gentiles before Salvation
    Don't get a swelled head I'm man enough to admit it when I make a mistake.
    MB
     
  13. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I don't see what this has got to do with the OP??? :Frown
     
  14. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    You assert that these passages in Revelation prove as completely wrong that there is any subordination with Jesus to the Father after the Incarnation.

    More than any other book of the Bible, however, Revelation stresses that God the Father continues to be the God of the glorified God-Man, Jesus of Nazareth:

    Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

    In this statement, the glorified Jesus Himself is the One who emphatically declares 4x that the Father is His God.

    It hardly seems that your OP accounts for what Jesus Himself stresses in this statement. If you believe that this is not an explicit statement of some kind of subordination of the God-Man, Jesus of Nazareth, to the Father after the Incarnation, how do you explain that what this statement teaches is not evidence of any such subordination?
     
    #94 Scripture More Accurately, Nov 22, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    like many, you simply don't understand what the Bible actually teaches on the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the relationship between the First and Second Persons in the Holy Trinity. Nothing in what you say, in any way disproves what I haved said in the OP. Tell me exactly how does Jesus, by saysing "His God", in reference to the Father, prove that He is "subordinate" to Him? Can you not read, that in chapters 11 and 22, it is very clear that the Reign of Jesus Christ, is EQUAL with that of the Father? How can they BOTH be EQUAL CO-RULERS, if, as you suggest, Jesus is in some way "subordinate" to the Father? In Hebrews 1:8, God the Father is addressing Jesus Christ, where He says, " προς δε τον υιον ο θρονος σου ο θεος εις τον αιωνα του αιωνος ραβδος ευθυτητος η ραβδος της βασιλειας σου". Here, not only does the Father refer to Jesus as "THE GOD" (ο θεος), but, also says that Jesus' Reign would be "without end"! Hardly language about someone Who is supposed to be a "subordinate"? Read John 17:5, which very clearly shows that Jesus had "equality" with the Father, from eternity past, which He "laid aside" during His Incarnate years, and when He entered into again at His Ascension. The words, " τῇ δοξῇ ᾗ εἶχον πρὸ τοῦ τὸν κόσμον εἶναι παρὰ σοί" shows that Jesus always HAD the SAME Glory JOINTLY WITH the Father, which He at the present time enjoys! Jesus Christ ALWAYS IS YAHWEH, which can NEVER have any "lower" sense!
     
  16. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    Because whenever Someone is the God of someone else, the One who is the God of someone else must be worshiped by that person who has someone who is his God. The glorified Jesus' saying that the Father is His God shows that even after His ascension, He will continue to worship the Father as His God.

    If you want to argue that the Scripture equally emphasizes that Jesus is the God of God the Father, please provide those explicit statements.
     
    #96 Scripture More Accurately, Nov 22, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
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  17. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    you are speaking complete nonsense! You call yourself "Scripture More Accurately", and don't really understand what you say! So, by your own logic (illogic), when God the Father very clearly calls Jesus Christ "GOD", as He does in Hebrews 1:8, then God the Father must "worship" the Lord Jesus Christ? Your reasoning is MOOT! I have no further time for this, as clearly you are out of your depth here! Start your own thread on your conjectures!
     
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You are the one claiming unqualified "absolute" equality between "Jesus" and "God the Father."

    Let us look at Hebrews 1:8-9,
    "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."
    Notice: The Son being called God by God still has God as His God. But they are not two Gods.
     
    #98 37818, Nov 22, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    There is only ONE Being God, Who is Three Persons. Jesus calls the Father "God", because He IS "Yahweh". the Father calls Jesus "God", because He IS "Yahweh". No one is saying that there are two Gods, or God/god! The ABSOLUTE EQULATLY of The Three Persons does not mean "Three Gods", nor does it mean ANY "subordination" in the Godhead with the Three Persons. They are ETERANALLY COEQUAL. The Bible fact that The Three Persons are YHWH, is conclusive in itself that there can NEVER be any "subordination", except for the duration of Jesus' Incarnate years on earth. Even then, as Almighty God, He was COEQUAL with the Father!
     
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  20. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    37818, what is "funny" about my reply?
     
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