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Featured The Absolute necessity of shedding of blood

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by The Biblicist, Jul 17, 2013.

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  1. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Could you please supply scripture to back this up? I mean with all your doctorates it should be easy right? :laugh:
     
    #61 Amy.G, Jul 20, 2013
  2. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    Hebrews 9:22.... oh wait.....;)
     
    #62 jbh28, Jul 20, 2013
  3. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Again, no response!
     
    #63 The Biblicist, Jul 20, 2013
  4. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    I only answered the condescension that you initiated.
     
    #64 Thomas Helwys, Jul 23, 2013
  5. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    I generally don't respond to insults, but I feel the need to help you out here.

    First, I have only one doctorate. Post-doctoral study is not an additional doctorate but rather just what it says: study post-doctorate.

    Secondly, so as not to do the work for one who demeans, I'll simply point you to the Book of Jeremiah as a starter. Study of the other prophets would also be beneficial.

    It would also be beneficial for you to learn that I don't state anything that I cannot back up.
     
    #65 Thomas Helwys, Jul 23, 2013
  6. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    More dishonesty from you. I have answered several times.

    But you, the Biblicist, the literalist, deny the literal scriptures when they refute your preconceived notions.

    You may have the last word, if you must. But the scriptures are clear that God is able and willing to forgive sins without blood spilling. You give a wrong picture of God by claiming otherwise.
     
    #66 Thomas Helwys, Jul 23, 2013
  7. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    May I ask, since I'm ignorant of your doctorate, what your doctorate is in? Also, what are you studying in your post-doctorate studies?

    The Archangel
     
    #67 The Archangel, Jul 23, 2013
  8. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    The truth is that you have not responded to my answers to your last objections and there is no post by you on record to show you did. So please, don't misrepresent the facts. My previous post answered all your objections and you have not responded - that is fact not fiction. I will repost it again and again I wait for a response.
     
    #68 The Biblicist, Jul 23, 2013
  9. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Here it is again!
     
    #69 The Biblicist, Jul 23, 2013
  10. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    The truth is that you have not responded to my answers to your last objections and there is no post by you on record to show you did. So please, don't misrepresent the facts. My previous post answered all your objections and you have not responded - that is fact not fiction. I will repost it again and again I wait for a response.


    You owe me an apology for accusing me falsely of being dishonest!
     
    #70 The Biblicist, Jul 23, 2013
  11. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Thomas has not yet responded to this post, although he accused me of being dishonest in pointing this out. However, the written record of posts are available for all to see that he has never yet responded to this post.

    In this post I expose his false claim where he says:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Thomas Helwys
    And apparently you are skipping over the crucially important qualifying word "ALMOST".


    And it exposes his false claim where he says in Post#55

    Ah, but His written word does not demand it, as I have clearly shown. You demand it, but you are not God.

    The important thing is that Jesus lived and died as one of us and redeemed us from sin and its curses, including physical and spiritual death. How he died is not what matters.     - TH

    My post above absolutely exposes these responses by Thomas to Hebrews 9:22 and its context as completely false!

    We still await his response!
     
    #71 The Biblicist, Jul 24, 2013
  12. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    I have more than adequately responded to everything you have posted, and that is the truth.
     
    #72 Thomas Helwys, Jul 27, 2013
  13. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    LOL! Thanks for posting my quotes. It proves that I have responded to your errors, and it also proves who believes what the scriptures literally say and who does not. Please keep on posting and also quoting my posts; in doing so, you are proving my case without my having to continue repeating myself. :laugh:
     
    #73 Thomas Helwys, Jul 27, 2013
  14. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    Let the objective and fair person read all my posts in this thread, and it can be clearly seen that I have shown how the NT verse in question refers back to the OT sacrificial system, in which God forgave sins without requiring a blood sacrifice. This is confirmed by the Pentateuch and the books of the OT prophets. Those who deny it are arguing against God, not against me. Read the relevant OT books, for God's sake!

    So, who is the real "biblicist" and literalist in this case? I am not the one denying what the scriptures say. The word "almost" is in the Hebrews verse for a reason: it refers directly back to the OT sacrificial system in which God could and did forgive sins without the necessity of a blood sacrifice. And the OT prophets confirm this.
     
    #74 Thomas Helwys, Jul 27, 2013
  15. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    A. Church history and theology

    B. The first 300 years of Christianity

    I am reluctant to bring my studies into a conversation, but I will do so in response to insults and condescension.
     
    #75 Thomas Helwys, Jul 27, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2013
  16. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Tom...why are you so reluctant. I am an Old School Baptist. My understanding of scripture is somewhat different but ixstatexwhat I believe. It is just theology anyway. If anyone on this board has "perfect " truth, than God love them...but I don't think so.

    Worse they can do is call you a name, claim you to be a heretic & ban you. No big deal, then you know that the place isn't tolerent. However as of late, ive seen moderator's display great tolerence. Now they may tell you your off base...but as long as you don't let the conversation go to trading insults ..you know...you should be fine.
     
    #76 Earth Wind and Fire, Jul 27, 2013
  17. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    I really appreciate your support, EWF. I'm not sure what you think I'm reluctant about, though.

    I wish we could all state what we believe if we do it respectfully. I don't mind differences, but the word "heresy" is tossed around too much here.
     
    #77 Thomas Helwys, Jul 27, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2013
  18. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Thomas, why play games? Your post that I quoted was the post that I answered and completely repudiated. It is my repudiation that you have yet to respond to. Go ahead and run and play your games as that is all you can do as my post is irrefutable and that is why you are running from it as fast as you can. I will repost my post again so the readers can see why you are running from it.
     
    #78 The Biblicist, Jul 27, 2013
  19. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    It is this last response that Thomas never answered!
    __________________
     
    #79 The Biblicist, Jul 27, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2013
  20. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    To deny the literalness of the necessity of the shedding of Christ's blood is IMO a serious error.

    The necessity of the bloodshedding is indeed shown in the OT.

    Leviticus 17
    11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
    12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.
    13 And whatsoever man there be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust.
    14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.​

    We cannot live forever with the mortal life of oxygenated blood flowing through our veins and arteries.​

    Romans 5
    8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
    9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.​

    Christ made the exchange for us. Mortal (subject to death because of sin) life based upon blood versus eternal life of the Spirit as the life force.​

    He "undid" what Adam had done to his race.​

    As the new Adam He offers this life based upon the exchange of mortal (subject to death because of sin) life for the eternal life of the Spirit by which He Himself now lives having been put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit.​

    Romans 8
    10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
    11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.​

    John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.​

    This is why it was not possible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sin as they are dumb creatures and have no intrinsic power whatsoever to give life but were a shadow of things to come being now justified by His blood, power and authority.​

    Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.​


    HankD​
     
    #80 HankD, Jul 27, 2013
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