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Featured The Amorality of Music

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Sapper Woody, Jul 9, 2012.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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  2. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    More in a bit, but for now I just wanted to point out that by quoting Gene Simmons of KISS, you have caused Advertisements for KISS to appear on the Baptist Board...Humorous, you must admit:laugh:
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    especially since KISS stands for "knights in satans Service!"
     
  4. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

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    One Word.....

    Yeshua 1.....I have one (BIBLE) word which deals with many kinds of influence in the the church(and the world)...music included...that is the word "leaven"...and it is never viewed in a positive light in scripture. It always (as far as I know) deals with corruption and compromise.The old principle of the rotten apple in the bushel spoiling everything would definitely apply here. We need to quit trying to hang on to the things of this world (for our own comfort and entertainment) and aim higher as much as possible.:praying: Yes...we are to be "in the world" but definitely NOT to be "of it". We are called to be (and I love this great Bible word) "peculiar" Titus 2:11-(14). Why are we so afraid of that...if we really believe what God tells us in His Word? Food for thought!

    Blessings in Christ,
    Greg Perry Sr.:jesus:
     
  5. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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  6. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    Would not an amish person make the same argument about, say, Pants on women? And would we not say they are adding restrictions that the bible does not require?
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    still trying to find out IF God is against the "beat/tempo" of a musical style, or else its lyrics?
     
  8. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

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    No Real Desire To Argue...

    Guys...I really truly don't want to argue just for the sake of arguing. I've never been good at that and I seldom win or really accomplish anything trying to. My only point is that we should ALWAYS seek to be pleasing to God in all we either directly do or {allow}. It is far too easy for the flesh to make accomodations for itself since we are all,by nature, selfish beings. We simply must,as Spirit-filled Christians,be prayerful and discerning and yes,even critical,about everything that we "partake" of in this world because the world IS WATCHING and the devil's crowd delights in seeing one of us fall or "come-over" to "their side". It (supposedly) gets us "off their backs" or "takes the heat off of them". Is it not a bit crazy to try to apply the old argument about there not being anything in the Bible about it being wrong to smoke and make it fit the "Christian Liberty" mold in reference to music? Paul had it right about Christian Liberty in 1 Corinthians 10:23 through 33. The whole point of that passage was in surrendering our liberties for the sake of others and doing all we do to the ultimate glory of God (vs.31). that same PRINCIPLE most definitely should be applied to everything touching our lives as His born-again children as we make our way through this world on the way to the next one.
    Question: Could I go to a Pink Floyd concert and (1) Enjoy it? and (2) Be pleasing to God? ( I picked them because they used to be one of my favorite classic rock bands)
    Answer: (at least for me)...(1) yeah....my old man would still like the music but my new Spirit-filled man would be clanging loud alarm bells in my heart and mind...so ultimately the answer would be (No..I wouldn't be able to really enjoy it for the inner battle that would ensue(that is unless I did what I used to do....smoke a few joints or have a few(or more)drinks to silence those old "inhibitions",ie.,deaden that conscience)...and (2) how could that possibly be pleasing to God trying to fit into a crowd of (probably)predominately unregenerate pagans unless my entire purpose in being there was possibly to distribute Gospel tracts and witness to folks about their need of our Saviour, The Lord Jesus Christ?( that would be the only exception that makes sense to me). Anyway,God bless ya'll....think about it...just another two-cents worth from me.

    Blessings in Christ,
    Greg Perry Sr.
     
    #88 Gregory Perry Sr., Jul 19, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2012
  9. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    For Yeshua/DaChaser1/Jesusfan: No, God is not against a beat or tempo. God IS displeased when lyrics promote ungodliness, or when instrumental music is used to glorify the self rather than God, whether it is an electric guitar, a violin, or an organ.

    Biblical Basis for the above opinion:
    1. "Praise Him with Loud Cymbals"
    2. "Let no unwholesome talk come out of your mouth"
    3. "Do all to the Glory of God." & "You shall have no other gods before me."
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So you would agree with me that God looks at the heart/motivation in the worship and praise, and IF performed by a dedicated believer...

    Petra in praise to Him equal to say George beverly Shea singing at Billy Graham Crusade to him!
     
  11. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    I would probably put the believer part first, but yes, God is seeking those who will worship him in spirit and in truth. (BTW, everyone on here will agree with you on that one.)

    I don't know enough about either to comment...
     
  12. Sapper Woody

    Sapper Woody Well-Known Member

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    Something that baffles me is that the world is ready and willing to say that some music is either a drug or as pwerful as a drug. They will say that music can change you. They say things like, "Get lost in the music" or "Let the music drive you". It is only Christians who seem to think that all music is ok.
     
  13. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    My argument is not that all music is ok in all circumstances.

    My argument is that no music is inherently sinful.

    I agree that music has powerful effects on the emotions of a person. So does roller coasters and romance movies and action movies and thriller novels and softball and chocolate and coffee and sex and thousands of other things.

    Take sex, for example. Is sex inherently sinful? No.

    Is it okay in all circumstances- no. It has no business happening in the Sunday morning worship service, for example.

    But just because it ought to be employed in VERY restrictive ways does not mean it is sinful.

    The same is true with certain types of music and certain types of alcohol and anger and wrath and hatred and all kinds of other things that are commended in the Bible if handled in a mature and responsible manner.

    *I wonder if I'm going to have to show where anger and hatred are good things in certain circumstances*
     
  14. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

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    The "world" is more predictable

    Bro.Woody...this is just my opinion (since folk on here don't seem to like dogmatism)...but the world is more clear-minded in and about their "sin" (and the definition of it)on many occasions than the professing "church" is about their "righteousness". And I might add that many times they don't seem to be as "sensitive" about offending people with their position on things. I have noticed many times that the world KNOWS what sin is while we just sit around and argue about it. They seem to KNOW how WE should live. Just food for thought. As for the music...I'm like Bro.Cloud...It did not take long after I was saved before the Holy Spirit dealt with my heart about the music issue....and still does on the occasions when my flesh tries to get me to swerve off course. I know that won't convince anybody but that's just the way it is. I have no chapter and verse for my(what's good or bad) position other than the ones that deal more in principle. What I do know is that we live in an "anything goes" type of culture and more and more it is infiltrating the Bible-Believing churches as the end approaches. Satan is definitely trying to build his One-World "church" in our day and music is certainly one of the tools he is using to get folks to surrender their objections to "unity"and yoke together outside of Biblical doctrinal distinctives. Personally, I believe he is always trying to make "inroads" of compromise even in our midst even on good forums like this one and definitely in the churches. None are immune in my opinion. On that we must always be vigilant. Music is one of those issues that either builds or tears down walls. Walls are for defense....and sometimes,as you would know,a good defense IS a good offense. I could go on but you are a soldier so I don't need to parade out all the usual metaphors. I think you get the picture. God bless you. Stand your ground and know that you are appreciated. Check out my post to you at the end of page (7) in case you missed it.

    Blessings in Christ,
    Greg Perry Sr.
     
    #94 Gregory Perry Sr., Jul 24, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2012
  15. michael-acts17:11

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    As I read through this thread, I can't help but notice that those who claim music can be intrinsically evil base their beliefs on personal opinion & books written by men. Human reasoning can be used to prove anything with long-winded books full of man's opinions. Those who cannot substantiate their beliefs based upon clearly written Scripture will always claim self-defined Biblical principles while quoting/referencing uninspired books of men.
     
  16. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

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    Interesting....

    Michael, I find it most interesting that YOU just offered YOUR stated opinion on the subject under discussion without offering ANY scriptural support for the position that you maintain either as a direct command of quoted scripture OR as a (self-defined) principle taught. That's kinda like the "pot calling the kettle black"....don't you think?
    As for the position I personally take...I am trying to live my life and conduct myself in a way that most honors God, but I will always admit that I fall far short of that mark many times each day. It is my prayer that I shed more light than heat. We need to set the mark and the standard HIGH....because God's standard (holiness) is high by its very nature.

    Blessings to all,
    Greg Perry Sr.
     
  17. michael-acts17:11

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    I prefer not to set different (higher) standards than God's Word. That's what got Eve into trouble. God said not to touch the fruit & she added "neither touch it" to His words. We should never use unScriptural standards as excuses for imposing an unScriptural law upon ourselves or anyone else.

    I do believe that God's Word gives clear examples & commands to praise God loudly with loud musical instruments. Others may be content with Scriptureless beliefs, but I prefer to ensure that mine can clearly be found in God's Word. Do you think your standard is greater than David, a man after God's own heart? God has preserved a record of David's worship. He has also preserved a record of the high standard-setting Pharisees. I'd rather imitate David than the Pharisees.

    God's "worship leader" was a man after His own heart. Read how he praised God.

    1 Samuel 13:14 But now thy kingdom shall not continue: the LORD hath sought him a man after his own heart, and the LORD hath commanded him to be captain over his people, because thou hast not kept that which the LORD commanded thee.

    Psalms 33:2-3 Praise the LORD with harp: sing unto him with the psaltery and an instrument of ten strings. Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise.

    Psalms 150:5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.

    2Samuel 6:5 And David and all the house of Israel played before the LORD on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals.

    1Chronicles 13:8 And David and all Israel played before God with all their might, and with singing, and with harps, and with psalteries, and with timbrels, and with cymbals, and with trumpets.

    1Chronicles 15:16 And David spake to the chief of the Levites to appoint their brethren to be the singers with instruments of musick, psalteries and harps and cymbals, sounding, by lifting up the voice with joy.

    1Chronicles 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;

    1Chronicles 15:28 Thus all Israel brought up the ark of the covenant of the LORD with shouting, and with sound of the cornet, and with trumpets, and with cymbals, making a noise with psalteries and harps.

    1Chronicles 16:5 Asaph the chief, and next to him Zechariah, Jeiel, and Shemiramoth, and Jehiel, and Mattithiah, and Eliab, and Benaiah, and Obededom: and Jeiel with psalteries and with harps; but Asaph made a sound with cymbals;

    1Chronicles 16:42 And with them Heman and Jeduthun with trumpets and cymbals for those that should make a sound, and with musical instruments of God. And the sons of Jeduthun were porters.

    1Chronicles 25:1 Moreover David and the captains of the host separated to the service of the sons of Asaph, and of Heman, and of Jeduthun, who should prophesy with harps, with psalteries, and with cymbals: and the number of the workmen according to their service was:

    1Chronicles 25:6 All these were under the hands of their father for song in the house of the LORD, with cymbals, psalteries, and harps, for the service of the house of God, according to the king's order to Asaph, Jeduthun, and Heman.

    2Chronicles 5:12-13 Also the Levites which were the singers, all of them of Asaph, of Heman, of Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, being arrayed in white linen, having cymbals and psalteries and harps, stood at the east end of the altar, and with them an hundred and twenty priests sounding with trumpets:) It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the LORD, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the LORD;

    2Chronicles 29:25 And he set the Levites in the house of the LORD with cymbals, with psalteries, and with harps, according to the commandment of David, and of Gad the king's seer, and Nathan the prophet: for so was the commandment of the LORD by his prophets.

    Ezra 3:10 And when the builders laid the foundation of the temple of the LORD, they set the priests in their apparel with trumpets, and the Levites the sons of Asaph with cymbals, to praise the LORD, after the ordinance of David king of Israel.

    Nehemiah 12:27 And at the dedication of the wall of Jerusalem they sought the Levites out of all their places, to bring them to Jerusalem, to keep the dedication with gladness, both with thanksgivings, and with singing, with cymbals, psalteries, and with harps.
     
  18. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

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    Excellent !!

    Now THAT'S what I'm talking about....REAL scriptural support...and Michael...thanks for using a KJV to do that since that is the only one I'm personally comfortable with (but I WON'T argue THAT point here). That said I also will say...I don't have any problem with "loud" music either in or out of church. Nor do I have any problem with folk shouting Amen!,Praise the Lord,or Hallelujah,etc in church.There is ample Biblical support for all of that. BUT....even the verses you quote do not offer any evidence that we should employ for church use musical types or styles that are more at home in the un-regenerate world. (although many I'm sure would try to "adapt" those verses to "fit" their own opinions about the style of music that they like)Nor do they suggest that we should "adapt" them for church use so that the heathens (or the carnal Christians and "professing" believers) will feel more comfortable in our midst. Only true believers can truly offer legitimate "praise and worship" to God. There is NOTHING in the Word of God that even remotely suggests that OUR MUSIC was ever intended for evangelistic use....nor do I find any place in the Word of God where "Christian entertainers" were EVER called to "give concerts" or "sell tickets" or (T-shirts,hats and posters). That doesn't sound like "ministry" to me. Anyway....thanks for the good Bible verses...I always enjoy reading the Word of God.

    God Bless You!
    Greg Perry Sr.
    (From the mountains of beautiful South Carolina!):jesus::type:
     
  19. michael-acts17:11

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    Where is the Scripture which draws a delineation between "OUR MUSIC" & any other music other than the words? Believers praise God with the same instruments that unbelievers use to worship the flesh. I have posted ample evidence for my beliefs. I'd like to see the Biblical evidence stating that instrumental music is to be divided between the sacred & the sinful. Let's not assume a division where God has not given one.
     
  20. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

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    Michael,granted,you have offered up ample scriptures that you profess "make your point" about the use of (loud) music in worship.....or at least that is what it seems you were trying to say (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). However,while the quoted verses do list various types of instruments that were used (and I certainly have no problem with that)they DO NOT delineate any particular genre of musical style or type. I think it is safe to say that FALLEN MAN more often than not spoils or pollutes any and everything he/she touches eventually,music included,in church or in the world unless the people involved are saved,surrendered and filled with the gifts and fruit of the Holy Spirit. While I don't presume to know it all on this subject,I have asked God to give me His kind of discernment so that I can tell the difference between right and wrong so that I can follow Him in a way that honors and glorifies HIM...whether it is convenient or comfortable for me...OR NOT. Following the world's stuff is NOT THAT WAY(as made clear by the principle taught in 1 John 2:15-17). As I suggested before...we don't need to be entertained...we need to be HOLY...and SEPARATE... (I know that is nearly a dirty word in church circles these days)from this world and it's ways. I'm very certain that all the differences that we all seem to have these days will all be made plain and be dealt with at the Judgement Seat of Christ. For the record,I don't listen to secular music radio stations or secular music even though I know I might like the "sound" of much of it. I can't find any scripture that would support me doing so. If you have any that CLEARLY teaches that it is OK to liten to the secular stuff I'd love to see it! Until then, I'll stick with what I'm sure God would be honored by.

    In Christ,
    Greg Perry Sr.:jesus:
     
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