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The answer is *not* 'arm the students'

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Matt Black, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    The "context" is that both a well regulated militia and the right to bear arms are what keep a people free and secure.

    The context is not that the right to bear arms is only by militia.
     
  2. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    You're still missing the 'well-regulated' part, aren't you.
     
  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    And which part is to be well regulated? The militia or the right to bear arms? Let's use some common sense here.
     
  4. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    The right to bear arms is in the context of there being a well-regulated militia. The words say what they say; you use some common sense!
     
  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Anybody with the intelligence to read at the 3rd grade level knows that in the past 6 years gun deaths are down by around 15% but gun sales are up by around 30%.
    Next you need to go back to the 3rd grade and learn to parse a sentence. The meaning of the 2nd amendment couldn't be more clear. Because of the treatment of the colonies by George III, and his policy of gun confiscation, it became necessary to throw off the yoke of tyranny. Guns in the hands of the citizenry are required to accomplish that goal. And if anything has changed in the past 220 years it is that the situation has gotten worse. We have more reason today to arm ourselves against a tyrannical government than they did in 1787.

    If you would bother to read some history, specifically the writings of the framers of our Constitution you would know the purpose of the second amendment.
    Complete article at http://www.lectlaw.com/files/gun01.htm
     
  6. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    We are not 'less free' and our government is no more 'tyrannical' since the handgun ban in 1997; we were not 'more free' and the government less 'tyrannical' before then. We are a people as free as you are here and do not share the same urge to carry instruments of death around. Why do you? Particularly as a Christian?
     
    #26 Matt Black, Dec 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2012
  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes, we are less free to own/carry certain guns. That is self evident.
    Because Christ commands it. Luke 22:36, "But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one."
     
  8. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I never saw a handgun bounce around and shoot anyone...you? That meme is silly...inanimate objects cannot kill anyone. A person kills another person.
     
  9. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    See the Eddie Izzard quote on the previous page for the reply to that old chestnut, Mike; your quote is a nice soundbite, but that's all it is.
    I was talking about 'we' in the UK; 'we' are no less free than 'you' and our degree of freedom was no different before the handgun ban than after it although I certainly feel more safe since the latter.
     
  10. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    We've all seen how the British Empire preferred unarmed colonials. And we've all seen how they were mowed down like grass in Amritsar.

    We aren't subjects over here we're citizens.
     
    #30 poncho, Dec 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2012
  11. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    It's not a straw man.

    Guns, bow and arrow, slings and various other types of armory were and are used to provide food for the table.

    Even today in parts of the US the citizenry depends on hunting to feed themselves.

    Not only that they use their guns to snipe the critters like woodchucks (which can also be eaten) who raid their gardens.

    Also, is there arson in Great Britain? Are matches and lighters outlawed?

    While an armed citizenry may not be "the" answer it is "an" answer against the tyranny of both foreign and domestic terrorists and tyrants.

    It is the one our founding fathers chose as part of our defense.

    True, as a consequence, we are a violent society.

    However, folks will still risk life and limb to get into these United States.

    HankD
     
  12. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I posted what they say. You saw it, your presuppositions will lead you where ever you want to go.
     
  13. Crucified in Christ

    Crucified in Christ New Member

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    You are the one who is missing the clear intentions of this language. In military terms, one often speaks of regulations in terms of that which is needed to bring it up to an acceptable standard. Because it is self-evident that a free people should be able to defend their freedom and because arms are needed for that end, Government cannot infringe on the people's right to own and bear arms.

    In other words, your liberal nature shows when you start thinking of regulations only in terms of laws that can be pressed upon people.
     
  14. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    The Irish are 'citizens not subjects' as well. Handguns are illegal. Rifles and shotguns are severely restricted. The general 'cop on the beat' is unarmed.

    And yet gun crime, outside of drug gang wars, is virtually unheard of. Most of those times it is a case of mistaken identity.

    I haven't lost a minute's sleep in the 18 years I have been here because I don't have a gun under my pillow.

    I believe in the 2nd Amendment. I do think there needs to be some reform so that there is not unrestricted access to any weapon.

    My point is that people can live safely and happily in a 'gun free' society.
     
  15. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    'Self-evident', huh? So we Brits and our Irish cousins live in some kind of fascist dictatorship because we don't have guns to 'defend ourselves from a Big Bad Government'? Reality check for Crucified in Christ, please!
     
  16. Oldtimer

    Oldtimer New Member

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    Didn't think you would be "impressed". :laugh:

    http://gunowners.org/sk0703.htm

    Wish I could quote the entire article, since instead of discussing the points it covered, you declared it is a "mish-mash" and you're not impressed.

    Thank you for not being impressed. That's led me to do more digging about England's stance & statistics. :flower:

    Gun Control's Twisted Outcome
    Restricting firearms has helped make England more crime-ridden than the U.S.
    http://reason.com/archives/2002/11/01/gun-controls-twisted-outcome/2
     
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