The Apostasy

I did not post that, but since I'm a mid weeker I will comment.

The phrase "day of Christ" conveys God's grace in regards to the church when raptured as in: 1 Cor. 1:8; 2 Cor. 1:14; Phil 1:6,10; 2:16. There is no reference to judgment in these passages.

The phrase "day of the Lord" encompasses all activity within that day of a 1,000 years, it includes both grace as in the rapture and MK and judgment as in the Trib and day of God.

The 2 Thess. 2 example of that day should be expressed as "the day of the Lord" since the context of this passage concerns the unsaved who are rebelling against God during a time of judgment. The NIV and HCSB would be correct in this case.

Day of Christ - grace only.
Day of the Lord - grace and judgment
Both days constitutes one day of a 1,000 years.

 

Bob,

Well it's obvious that we see differently.

I believe you have misjudged myself, but that is commonplace due to your doctrinal belief of agrrement with the other party. This thread will reflect that I HAVE kept to issues, while ALSO receiving snips from "fragile" Ed. I respond to them as Paul. I am not picking on him personally, so don't make it appear so. He's NOT TOO FRAGILE to throw out his own slurs. Please don't try to defend him. DON'T MAKE IT PERSONAL, which it isn't. It's DOCTRINAL. I have dealt with MANY preweek, prewrath, and postie rapturists JUST LIKE him.

He happens to be the one, who is STANDING for the preweek rapture, giving false answers, evading pertinent issues, using non-biblical terms, while NOT prooftexting his belief after being REQUESTED to do so.

Read the thread again, brother.

Yes, this is America, and we all can believe what we want, but within Christianity (of which this board professes inclusion), false teaching is to be DEALT with.

He's teaching Bob, not giving his opinion. So am I. My posts usually don't address "anyone" UNTIL they desire to refute what I have written. The PERSON reflects HIS DOCTRINE. (See Hymanaeus and Philetus in 2 Tim.2)

Good day.

In Christ Jesus,
Carl

 

The day of Christ is a NT term of revelation, while the day of the Lord is an OT term of prophecy. (See Phil. 2,2 Thess.2, Isaiah 2, Zeph.1)

The day of Christ concerns the gathering while the day of the Lord concerns the woman in travail with child, the time of Jacob's trouble. (2 Thess.2, Phil.1, 1 Thess.4-5 Jer.30, Zech.1)

The day of Christ COMES BEFORE the day of the Lord. (1 Thess.4-5)

The day of Christ references the SON, while the day of the Lord references the FATHER. The SON is not the Lord of the OT or NT term, the day of the Lord.

The Son is referenced in the NT terms, the day of Christ (Phil.2, 2 Thess.2), the day of the Lord Jesus (2 Cor.1), the day of Jesus Christ (Phil.1), the day of our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Cor.1)

The OT term, day of the Lord is used two times in the NT, which is given by Paul and Peter. (1 Thess.5, 2 Peter 3)

Luke refers to the OT prophet Joel, stating the great and notable day of the Lord, which is the great and terrible OR great and dreadful day of the Lord (Mal.4)

The distinguishing factors are clear and plain.

 

Carlaimpinge: "There he goes USING "false,
unbiblical terms" (The tribulation period)"

Carlaimpinge: "He happens to be the one, who is STANDING for the preweek rapture, giving false answers, evading pertinent issues, using non-biblical terms, while NOT prooftexting his belief after being REQUESTED to do so."

You have indeed delineated the discussion here.

1. "STANDING for the preweek rapture"

I do NOT stand for the "preweek rapture".
These terms YOU USE are not found in the Bible
Do a search of the KJV1769 for "preweek", not there.
Your search query for 'preweek' did not return any results.
Do a search of the KJV1769 for "pre-week", not there.
Your search query for 'pre-week' did not return any results.
Do a search of the KJV1769 for "ratpure", not in the text.
Your search query for 'rapture' did not return any results
I believe in a start of the week rapture/resurrection
and an end of the week Coming of Jesus in power to bring
judgement and then the physical Millinnial Kingdom of Christ.

2. "giving false answers"

Please try to specify, if you can. Be sure to have
a prooftext that shows each answer is false. If i have to
pooftext, so do you.

3. "evading pertinent issues"

You don't even use God given knowledge to help your understanding
and reject others who do. Come on, geometry is truth, it is just
true stuff that is NOT in the Bible. BTW, don't ever let a brain
surgeon who "needs only the Bible" cut into you
Come on, i live in the 21st century. Give me a little stuff i
can use to make it through the week. Thank you.

4. "using non-biblical terms"

See number 1 above, the pot doeth call the kettle "black"

5. "while NOT prooftexting his belief after being REQUESTED to do so"

Am i supposed to do like you do and give a whole Chapter?
Come on, the discussion is about what the scripture means.
BTW, did you notice that 2 Thessalonians 2:2-3 is different in
the KJV1611 and the KJV1769?

 

2 Thess. 2:2 - Day of Christ or Day of the Lord?

The Thessalonians were suffering trials and tribulations (1:4-5), they thought they were in the midst of that day. Paul said not to be alarmed if someone claimed "the day of the Lord
has already come .

The Thessalonians knew that the gathering to him on the day of Christ would happen in an instant.
If the day of Christ had already come then they would not of been on earth reading Paul's letter.
Since the day of Chirst is an instantaneous event there's no way they could be in the midst of it and had already come.

 

Another dynamic display of DIVERSION, DECEIT, and DISTRACTION "leaving" the VERSES and SUBJECT.

Did you notice that he didn't RESPOND to the last question he asked, which was ANSWERED biblically. See his post, THEN see my post.

HE JUMPED IT TO POST THIS MALICIOUS, FALSE, FOOLISHNESS, which will be responded to below.

Ed Edwards

Member # 4203

posted December 11, 2004 08:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Said by a midweek rapture advocate:
"The timing is on the DAY of Christ, not to be
confused with the Day of the Lord."

II.Theffalonians II:2 (KJV1611):
That yee bee not soone shaken in minde, or bee troubled,
neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as
from vs, as that the day of Christ is at hand,

2 Thessalonians 2:2 (HCSB):
not to be easily upset in mind or troubled,
either by a spirit or by a message or by a letter as
if from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has come.

Which of the different "Day of Christ" and
"Day of the Lord" is intended in this passage?
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Posts: 5315 | From: central Oklahoma | Registered: Aug 2002 | IP: Logged |


carlaimpinge
Member
Member # 8932

posted December 12, 2004 06:14 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The day of Christ is a NT term of revelation, while the day of the Lord is an OT term of prophecy. (See Phil. 2,2 Thess.2, Isaiah 2, Zeph.1)

The day of Christ concerns the gathering while the day of the Lord concerns the woman in travail with child, the time of Jacob's trouble. (2 Thess.2, Phil.1, 1 Thess.4-5 Jer.30, Zech.1)

The day of Christ COMES BEFORE the day of the Lord. (1 Thess.4-5)

The day of Christ references the SON, while the day of the Lord references the FATHER. The SON is not the Lord of the OT or NT term, the day of the Lord.

The Son is referenced in the NT terms, the day of Christ (Phil.2, 2 Thess.2), the day of the Lord Jesus (2 Cor.1), the day of Jesus Christ (Phil.1), the day of our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Cor.1)

The OT term, day of the Lord is used two times in the NT, which is given by Paul and Peter. (1 Thess.5, 2 Peter 3)

Luke refers to the OT prophet Joel, stating the great and notable day of the Lord, which is the great and terrible OR great and dreadful day of the Lord (Mal.4)

The distinguishing factors are clear and plain.
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Posts: 73 | From: montgomery, alabama | Registered: Jul 2004 | IP: Logged |

NO RESPONSE AS OF YET FROM HIM. This is his "manner of disputation". Go back through the threads and watch him leave off DISCUSSION of the verses and subject.


Now let's deal with his tripe from the last post.

Quote:

1. "STANDING for the preweek rapture"

I do NOT stand for the "preweek rapture".
These terms YOU USE are not found in the Bible
Do a search of the KJV1769 for "preweek", not there.
Your search query for 'preweek' did not return any results.
Do a search of the KJV1769 for "pre-week", not there.
Your search query for 'pre-week' did not return any results.
Do a search of the KJV1769 for "ratpure", not in the text.
Your search query for 'rapture' did not return any results
I believe in a start of the week rapture/resurrection
and an end of the week Coming of Jesus in power to bring
judgement and then the physical Millinnial Kingdom of Christ.

Unquote.

He "most certainly" STANDS for the preweek rapture. Ask him if he believes the rapture OCCURS before Daniel's 70th week, and he'll state YES. This deceitfulness has already been MANIFESTED previously.

QUOTE AND RESPONSE FROM A PREVIOUS POST IN THREAD.

Quote from Ed:

Interesting ??? I deny ever teaching the preweek rapture.
I teach the rapture/resurrection at the beginning of the
70th week of Daniel.

Unquote.

Quote from Carl:

Your doubletalk DEMONSTRATES your deceitfulness and incompetence. A preweek rapture IS a rapture at the BEGINNING of the 70th week of Daniel.

Unquote.

As far as biblical terms.

This silly simpleton can't point to ANY POST (which I have written) PROCLAIMING that preweek is IN THE BIBLE, or a BIBLICAL TERM. I don't believe that NOR did I SAY it was, UNLIKE himself who uses for a SCRIPTURAL TERM, the tribulation period, a 7 year period of time SYNONYMOUS with Daniel's week.

It's BOGUS.

Quote from Ed:

But no true Christian ever believed that
they would have to face God's wrath.
BTW God's wrath is expressed in the term
"tribulation period" (AKA; 70th week of Daniel,
"the week", the Day of the Lord, etc.)

Unquote.

He couldn't DOCUMENT that lying statement BY ANY VERSE FROM ANY VERSION AT ANY TIME. It's foolish madness. (Ecc.10:13)

The only time of ESCHATOLOGICAL tribulation, which OCCURS with Daniel's week begins at the MIDST OF THE WEEK, when the Abomination of Desolation is SEEN! That's according to the Lord Jesus. (Matt.24, Mark 13)

I've ALREADY posted this many times. It is REDUNDANT, but hopefully the TRUTH will sink down in ears.

Quote:

2. "giving false answers"

Please try to specify, if you can. Be sure to have
a prooftext that shows each answer is false. If i have to
pooftext, so do you.

Unquote.

YOU JUST READ ONE.

Quote:

3. "evading pertinent issues"

You don't even use God given knowledge to help your understanding
and reject others who do. Come on, geometry is truth, it is just
true stuff that is NOT in the Bible. BTW, don't ever let a brain
surgeon who "needs only the Bible" cut into you
Come on, i live in the 21st century. Give me a little stuff i
can use to make it through the week. Thank you.

Unquote.

YOU ARE READING ONE MANIFESTING YOUR EVASION on the day of Christ and the day of the Lord.

See his foolish madness about the brain surgeon. No person GOES TO A BIBLE SCHOLAR for brain surgery, and no brain surgeon has to study the Bible for HIS LEARNING. It's DIVERSION. GEOMETRY has nothing to do with rapture timing, bud.

Quote:

4. "using non-biblical terms"

See number 1 above, the pot doeth call the kettle "black"

Unquote.

I use plenty of non-biblical terms, such as trinity, rapture, etc, but I don't FALSIFY scriptural terms AS YOU(tribulation), and give them MY OWN PRIVATE INTERPRETATION without a corroborating prooftext.

See above for your FALSE USE of unscriptural, and NON-BIBLCAL terms.

Quote:

5. "while NOT prooftexting his belief after being REQUESTED to do so"

Am i supposed to do like you do and give a whole Chapter?
Come on, the discussion is about what the scripture means.
BTW, did you notice that 2 Thessalonians 2:2-3 is different in
the KJV1611 and the KJV1769?

Unquote.

Yes, giving your prooftexts is the way a person can READ for himself what you base your belief upon.

No, that's your mistake. It's NOT discoussion of WHAT IT MEANS. It's what does it STATE. I don't give a rat's tail about what you think something means.

I didn't see your post of 2 Thess.2 in the King James 1611 and 1769. It would be correct in both.

 

Carl,

You keep on saying, 'midweek rapture'.

I ask you, what happening to the beginning of the week?

Pretribs believe Dan. 9:27 of 'week' is a future event. They saying, 'week' means seven year of "tribulation period".

Amill/postmill/full preterist/partial preterist understand Dan. 9:24-27 speak of the prophecy about the coming of Messiah for salvation and the covenant. It already fulfilled by Calvary 2,000 years ago. We do not waiting for the coming 'week'.

It already fulfilled at Calvary.

There is none scripture find anywhere in the Bible saying 'great tribulation' or 'tribulation' last for only either 3 1/2 or 7 years. We already through so many tribulations since Pentacost to now. I believe the climax of tribulations and persecution is increasing toward peak and worst by the time Christ comes. Christ shall not come till after we face tribulation first - Matt. 24:29-31; & Mark 13:24-27.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

Quote:

Carl,

You keep on saying, 'midweek rapture'.

I ask you, what happening to the beginning of the week?

Pretribs believe Dan. 9:27 of 'week' is a future event. They saying, 'week' means seven year of "tribulation period".

Amill/postmill/full preterist/partial preterist understand Dan. 9:24-27 speak of the prophecy about the coming of Messiah for salvation and the covenant. It already fulfilled by Calvary 2,000 years ago. We do not waiting for the coming 'week'.

It already fulfilled at Calvary.

There is none scripture find anywhere in the Bible saying 'great tribulation' or 'tribulation' last for only either 3 1/2 or 7 years. We already through so many tribulations since Pentacost to now. I believe the climax of tribulations and persecution is increasing toward peak and worst by the time Christ comes. Christ shall not come till after we face tribulation first - Matt. 24:29-31; & Mark 13:24-27.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1093 | From: Detroit | Registered: Apr 2002 | IP: Logged |

Unquote.


Deafpostrib,

We have "discussed" this subject before and you have paid no attention to any thing that has been presented in the Bible. You have your own "distorted" system.

The BEGINNING comes before the MIDST. Daniel's 70th week HAS NOT arrived as of yet, no matter who says so. It will BEGIN with the CONFIRMATION of the Old MOSAIC COVENANT by the Lord (Dan.9,Hos.3, Zech. 11) who will AGAIN ALLOW Israel to rebuild a temple (Isaiah 66, Jer.30, Amos 8, Ez.7, Jer. 6, 15, Mal.3, Matt.24) AND sacrifice at an ALTAR (Rev. 11), for they are NOT YET UNDER the NT.(Rom.10, 2 Cor.3, Heb.8)

There IS NO future 7 year tribulation period. There is an UNKNOWN period of time, called the tribulation, which begins in the MIDST (not middle or midpoint) of the week. (Matt.24) The Lord comes AFTER THAT TIME for those LIVING, who endured unto the end of the tribulation.

The amill/postmill/preterist/full preterist "birds" are incompetent illiterates, who BLASPHEME the Holy Scriptures, which Jesus Christ stated. HE SPOKE OF DANIEL'S WEEK when he "prophesied" of the Abomination of desolation, which was STILL FUTURE from him. How do I know that? Easy. HE QUOTED DANIEL THE PROPHET.

The WEEK is still future.

I don't know (but I have a guess) how long the tribulation lasts. But I KNOW "when" it begins. It BEGINS AT THE MIDST OF DANIEL'S WEEK, according to the Lord Jesus Christ, for that IS the time of trouble found in Daniel and Matthew.

That overthrows YOUR BELIEF and the belief of ANY PREWEEK RAPTURIST.

Now, please don't respond with a fifteen page book, because I do not plan on "discussing" this anymore with you. Our discussions are on this board, and others. Please refer back to them.

Thanks.

In Christ Jesus,
Carl

 

Hellooooo Carl

Looking good sir. Reading your last post has changed my understanding of which covenant will be confirmed. In the past I thought the Abrahamic was the one, it gives the title deed to the Land as belonging to Israel.

The Mosaic law established a sacrificial system that will be reinstituted with the signing of the 7 year covenant. The AC will stop the sacrifices that were initiated with the signing of the covenant. The provisions of the Abrahamic covenant are not related to sacrifices, therefore, cannot be the covenant in question.

As to the ownership of the Land, specifically the Temple Mount, the acceptance of the Abrahamic Covenant by Muslim nations would be a necessary prerequisite for building the temple. I know that certain people know where the Ark of the Covenant is underground. This will be brought up to the surface for Israel's enemies to see. The effect of its reappearance would set in motion the acceptance of the Abrahamic Covenant by Muslim nations, thus allowing the Jews to rebuild the temple. Makes sense to you?

 

Carlaimping: //NO RESPONSE AS OF YET FROM HIM.
This is his "manner of disputation". //

I see no reason to specify when i agree with you.
YOu might get confused with winning the debate

BTW, you never did deal with the fact that some
versions use "Day of Christ" and some versions
use "Day of the Lord" in 2 Thessalonians 2:2.
Which source text is correct? the one that
says "Day of the Lord" or the one that says
"Day of Christ"?

Carlaimping: "He "most certainly" STANDS for the preweek rapture. Ask him if he believes the rapture OCCURS before Daniel's 70th week, and he'll state YES. This deceitfulness has already been MANIFESTED previously."

You obviously don't understand boundry physics.
But boundry physics isn't in the Bible, so you don't need it.
Frankly you continually limit your understanding by refusing to
learn anything new. Don't make me quote you scripute about
the nature of those who cannot/willnot learn new stuff.
A boundry can be of zero width or have width.
A boundry can be included in one side, the other side,
neither side, both sides.
The rapture/resurreciton is the boundry between the
gentile times and Daniel's 70th week.
Daniel's 70th week (AKA: DAY OF THE LORD, DAY OF CHRIST)
is the 7-year wide boundery between the Gentile Age
and the Millinnial Kingdom of Christ Age (AKA: DAY OF THE LORD,
DAY OF CHRIST).

Carlaimpinge: "A preweek rapture IS a rapture at
the BEGINNING of the 70th week of Daniel."

That is double talk.

Carlaimpinge: "This silly simpleton can't point to ANY POST (which I have written) PROCLAIMING that preweek is IN THE BIBLE, or a BIBLICAL TERM."

Yes, i know you can't.

Carlaimpinge: "... UNLIKE himself who uses for a SCRIPTURAL TERM,
the tribulation period, a 7 year period of time SYNONYMOUS
with Daniel's week."

Show me where i said "tribualtion period" was a scriptureual term.
I do use the term. I didn't get it from the scirpture.
But recall with what judgement you judge me, you will be judged by.
Any use of any non-scriputural term and i'll be on your case
like a june bug on a doggie drop.

BTW, you already oopsed
Verse Search Results (The King James Version (Authorized))
Your search query for 'simpleton' did not return any results.

Carlaimpinge: "I didn't see your post of 2 Thess.2 in
the King James 1611 and 1769. It would be correct in both."

I didn't post it yet. I'm in a hurry now, sorry.
There is a difference between the KJV1611 and KJV1769.

Carlaimpinge: "No, that's your mistake. It's NOT discoussion
of WHAT IT MEANS. It's what does it STATE. I don't give
a rat's tail about what you think something means."

Likewise, i don't give a rat's tail about what you think
about the scripture. I only go by what the scripture says.
BTW, you are really confused. You didn't understand my
"riot act". You don't understand that we are discussing our opinions
of what the Bible says. You don't understand how much false piety
and self righteousness people see among those who cannot distinguish
between what they think the Bible says
and what the Bible really says.
Obviously you live in some ivory tower and don't have to interface
with real (but un-Christian) people.

You have given chapters and i have no idea where in that chapter you
get what you said the scripture said cause i don't see that in
the chapter you mention. Plesase show me the exact word, the exact
phrase, the exact interaction between the phrases. Thank you.
This is an exaggeration for humor only.
Here is my prooftext: Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 22:21

 

Prophecynut,

The Lord confirmed the Abrahamic covenant when he first came, which was one of the PROMISES. (Gal.3, Rom.15)

I don't know about the acceptance of the Abrahamic covenant by Muslims, but it is certain there will be some type of Jewish acceptance (whether by FORCE or diplomacy) I tend to think force.

The king of the north (northern breakup of the Grecian kingdom, Dan.7,8,11) will be used by the Lord for this REBUILDING, just as Cyrus, the King of Babylon-Media-Persia was. (Ez.1)

 

I find most people confuse the defintion
of "heresy" and "apostasy".
To be in apostasy, you have to have
been it the truth first.
A person can practice heresy without
ever having practiced the truth.

 

See folks, it's another QUEST of diversion, deceit, and plain ole' LYING.

Let's get his lie which he can't validate biblically or scripturally. His other trash is malicious, childish, foolishness for distraction.

Quote:

Daniel's 70th week (AKA: DAY OF THE LORD, DAY OF CHRIST)
is the 7-year wide boundery between the Gentile Age
and the Millinnial Kingdom of Christ Age (AKA: DAY OF THE LORD,
DAY OF CHRIST).

Unquote.

He CAN'T, DOESN'T, and WILL NOT present ANY VERSE FROM ANY VERSION to document, prooftext, or corroborate that false teaching.

No bud, I'm not CONFUSED at all about you. I've got your number. You tried to "play" and doubletalk with the wrong guy. I'll hold YOUR FEET TO THE FIRE of the Book, and it will burn you up.

Your deceitfulness is manifest everytime you speak, along with your pious sarcasm.

Yea, I don't get out much. Just all the time. I happen to "interface" everyday with bricklayers, pimps, painters, religious charlatans, the bereaved, prostitutes, carnal Baptists, concrete finishers, lost Catholics, sheetrock hangers, self called and deceived "bible" teachers, carpet layers, the sick, etc.

On Sundays I get to interface a at least THREE TIMES with a bunch of professing Baptists, besides seeing them again on Wednesday nights, and other times on Saturday mornings or Thursday nights.

Bud, I'm not discussing my opinion of the Bible. I'm TEACHING the Bible. And so are you, wrongly and falsely with DELIBERATE LYING EVASION.

Now I've had enough of your deceitful dogma. If you've got some verses for what you believe and teach, produce them. If not, I don't care to speak to you anymore.

 

Carlaimpinge: "Bud, I'm not discussing my opinion
of the Bible. I'm TEACHING the Bible."

There is none so blind as he who will not see.
Humans are incapable of doing anything other
than their errant opinions. God's true written
scriptures are inerrant. BTW, you probably never
noticed while you were railing against me that i
use the same exact verses that you use, but understand
them different. Only my understanding of scriputre
gives me hope. I have yet to figure out most of
what you are talking about. Your continued discussion
of discussion technique is hiding your real
(if any) eschatological beliefs.

Failure to talk to me constitutes admittance i've
"won" the debate.

What elements mark the beginning of the 70th week of
Daniel? What prophetic happenings happen in the
first half of the week? I have an answer from scripture,
you have evasion

Here is an axiom from set theory:
An infinite set can be divided into any finite
number of infinite subsets.

An infinite set has an uncountable number of members.
For example, the set of counting numbers: {1, 2, 3, 4, ...}
The ... shows there is no last member, so the set
is infinite. Say that i divide it into three subsets
according to the remainder when i divide by three.
The no remainder set is {3, 6, 9, 12, ... }
The remainder of 1 set is {1, 4, 7, 10, ... }
The remainder of 2 set is {2, 5, 8, 11, ... }
I have divided one infinite set into 3 (a finte number)
infinite sets.
Eternity is a set of endless time units, say an infinite
number of days. If you only get to spend time alone with
Jesus for one day each 100 Billion years, there is the fist such
day, the second such day, the third such day, etc. You get
to spend eternity alone with Jesus.
Say you have to put up with Ed and hour each 1,000 Billion years.
You have to put up with Ed for an infinite number of hours
one for each of an infinite number of 1,000 Billion years.
Are you sure you want to go to heaven

 

If this statement was intended to limit the posting of anyone individual on the board, it is doomed to fail. All registerd posters have the right to respond to any commets made by any other poster on the board. We ask that you refrain from making personal attacks such as some of the ones made in the above post, and post with grace as the Bible teaches. It is the personal attacks on individuals that will not be tolerated. Please tone down the rhetoric.
DHK