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Featured The Apostle Paul's Dilemma

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by tyndale1946, Dec 30, 2017.

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  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

    7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

    7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

    7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

    Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

    7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

    7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

    7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

    7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

    7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

    7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

    7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

    I can understand this and if we are all honest, this is our dilemma too... Yet I see to many on here telling other on here that they need to do this or that and unless they do they have no part with Christ?... Is that what the Apostle Paul is saying?... We all struggle in our walk with the Lord some more than others but to me if you struggle in your walk with the Lord, its because you belong to him and not because you don't... Your thoughts... Brother Glen:)
     
    #1 tyndale1946, Dec 30, 2017
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  2. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Notice that the answer to Paul's question is a "who", not a "what". Missing that distinction is the cause of much turmoil in the Church.

    In other words, there is no method for me to follow in order to improve myself, and there is no secret to spiritual growth that if applied correctly will free me from my sin. There is, however, a Savior to save me from me.
     
    #2 thatbrian, Dec 30, 2017
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  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    :confused: so we should go through life continuing to sin cause we can’t do anything else but sin?!?
     
    #3 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 30, 2017
  4. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    I said: Notice that the answer to Paul's question is a "who", not a "what".

    Paul does have an answer to his problem - IN CHRIST. Union with Christ. That's Paul's answer.

    Neither I nor Paul said to go on sinning.
     
    #4 thatbrian, Dec 30, 2017
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  5. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Oh so you suddenly stop sinning?
     
    #5 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 30, 2017
  6. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

    "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One."​

    The difference for Paul was going from a life "under the law" to a life in union with Christ. One gives power to sin, and the other power to obey.
     
    #6 thatbrian, Dec 30, 2017
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  7. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Philippians 3:12
     
    #7 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 30, 2017
  8. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Galatians 2:20

    I don't see either Paul's life, nor anyone else's, being a 100% switch from one to the other. Not even close. I see sanctification as progressive, but not a struggle, in the way that some see it, but as a struggle of faith. Will I go back to trying to justify myself or will I rest in Christ through faith? That's the battle, and that's why moralistic preaching is so harmful to the Church.
     
    #8 thatbrian, Dec 30, 2017
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  9. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Do you know about “Lordship Salvation?”
     
    #9 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 30, 2017
  10. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    I do, and, as I understand it, reject it.
     
    #10 thatbrian, Dec 30, 2017
  11. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Well then perhaps we can bring in Brother Tony a.k.a. Iconoclast who is both a Righteous dude, Calvinist and I believe is a proponent to explain his prospective. I would suggest that Anthony start a new thread however
     
    #11 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 30, 2017
  12. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    How do you understand it?
     
    #12 Reformed, Dec 30, 2017
  13. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    That's Okay. I don't need fixing.
     
    #13 thatbrian, Dec 30, 2017
  14. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    I understand the debate very well, but in these forums, I feel like I have to qualify every statement I make.
     
    #14 thatbrian, Dec 30, 2017
  15. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I am not questioning your understanding of the debate, I am just curious as to why you reject Lordship Salvation? It is not common for those who believe in the doctrines of grace to reject Lordship Salvation unless I am missing something about what you believe.
     
    #15 Reformed, Dec 30, 2017
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  16. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I reject so-called "Lordship Salvation" due to the fact Christ is Lord no matter what we do. Nothing we can do will make Him any more or any less Lord.
     
    #16 TCassidy, Dec 30, 2017
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  17. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    I am compelled by scripture to hold a Free Grace view.

    Let's not derail this thread any further.
     
    #17 thatbrian, Dec 30, 2017
  18. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Agreed. The last time someone told me (after my 30 years of being a Christian, mind you) that I must "make Jesus Lord of my life", I immediately replied, He is Lord of all creation, whether I "make" Him so or not.

    The arrogance needed for someone to say that they "allow" God to anything is breathtaking.
     
    #18 thatbrian, Dec 30, 2017
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I think that all Christians hold to a "free grace" view, as we are saved by grace alone faith alone, but also think that both the Lordship side and free grace side has good points to make on this issue!
     
    #19 Yeshua1, Dec 30, 2017
  20. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Umm...that is what Lordship Salvation is all about. I think it is time for a thread on the issue. I will be happy to oblige.
     
    #20 Reformed, Dec 30, 2017
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