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Featured The Atonement of Christ: What did it REALLY Achieve ?7

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Brightfame52, Sep 29, 2022.

  1. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Im not finished with the thread. Its about the atonement of Christ and what it achieved. You talking about salvation by works, and have put down the achievement of Christs death, so we are finished.
     
  2. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Will draw all to Him !

    Jn 12:32

    32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

    This verse more than any other does ensure the saving/converting success from Christ's death, the Lifting up here has reference to Atoning Death, and as a consequence, all for whom He was Lifted up in behalf of, that is delivered for or because of their sins Rom 4:25

    25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

    They shall be drawn to Him, by the cords of Divine Love Jer 31:3

    3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

    If God Loved us in Christ, He will draw us to Him, for God's Love must be in Christ for this to occur Rom 8:39

    39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    The all men that are drawn in Jn 12:32 is His Spouse, the Church, His Bride, whom He Loved and gave Himself for Eph 5:25

    25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

    This is also pictured in Song of Solomon 1:4

    The song of songs, which is Solomon's.

    2 Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth: for thy love is better than wine.

    3 Because of the savour of thy good ointments thy name is as ointment poured forth, therefore do the virgins love thee.

    4 Draw me, we will run after thee: the king hath brought me into his chambers: we will be glad and rejoice in thee, we will remember thy love more than wine: the upright love thee.

    This pictures the Holy Bride being drawn by the Bridegroom and she perceives His Love for her

    And She Loves Him in return because it is written 1 Jn 4:19

    19 We love him, because he first loved us.

    The Upright is His Spouse, the Church, made so by His Obedience unto death Rom 5:19

    19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    There is an superb illustration of how the Love of Christ and the power of His Death/ Cross draws individuals to Him that He has Loved and gave Himself for, and how He works secretly in their hearts and minds drawing them to Himself !

    Mk 14:3-9

    3 And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at meat, there came a woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious; and she brake the box, and poured it on his head.

    4 And there were some that had indignation within themselves, and said, Why was this waste of the ointment made?

    5 For it might have been sold for more than three hundred pence, and have been given to the poor. And they murmured against her.

    6 And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her? she hath wrought a good work on me.

    7 For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.

    8 She hath done what she could: she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying.

    9 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.

    To those of you who dont know, this is Mary of Bethany or Magdalene who was being a notorious sinner, but notice how she showed up here at this dinner, she was drawn by Her Saviors Love, realizing the Forgiveness of her sins.

    In another Gospel account Lk 7:36-48 Jesus informs us of why she wrought this good work upon Him Lk 7:47-48

    47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

    48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

    She had been given a Divine intuition of her forgiveness that incited this action of hers. Also Jesus stated that it was connected to His Death and Burial Matt 26:12-13

    12 For in that she hath poured this ointment on my body, she did it for my burial.

    13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.

    The same burial Paul mentions here 1 Cor 15:3-4

    3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

    4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

    All for whom Christ died, was Lifted up for, shall be drawn to Him by the cords of Love, and they shall Love in return !29
     
  3. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    "Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." Romans 8:30
     
  4. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Okay
     
  5. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    You've covered this 'eternal aspect' of our salvation very thoroughly with these seven threads on the atonement. You're a total blank on what's expected in return on man's part.

    @DaveXR650 is not talking about 'going to heaven' by works. You just have a ridiculous lop-sided aversion to any mention of man's Gospel-mandated responsibilities.

    You've an overactive imagination. In no way did @DaveXR650 "put down the achievement of Christs death". You just have a ridiculous lop-sided aversion to any mention of man's Gospel-mandated responsibilities.
     
  6. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    As for the Christian, the Just shall live by Faith !

    And yes the poster does promote salvation by works, and so do you. Furthermore this thread is about what Christ achieved by His death and not about men's responsibility in case you haven't noticed.
     
  7. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    1 Cor 15:45 He became a Life giving Spirit !

    1 Cor 15:45

    45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

    To who did He become a Life giving Spirit to ? Why to everyone He died for and canceled for them the wages of sin, which is Death !

    Now this Truth was confirmed on the Day of Pentecost, when the risen and Exalted Christ, poured out upon His Church, His Body, His Life giving Spirit, notice the words of Acts 2:31-33

    31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

    32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

    33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

    And by His Spirit that He gave them by shedding it forth. Note that word shed forth does also mean:

    to give; bestow; communicate: To impart !

    And by His Spirit given them they were quickened to Spiritual Life, and with that cometh Spiritual ears to hear, and spiritual hearts to tremble at God's Words Isa 66:2

    2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth[in awe and reverence] at my word.

    Now the message that Peter was inspired to preach to them, convinced them of their sin and unbelief, as we see in Acts 2:23, where he exposed their wickedness and in Vs 37, it shows how the Spirit with the Word had pricked their Hearts, and so it was evident of a Spiritual change having taken place in them, and what is meant by He is a Life giving Spirit as well as He giveth repentance [change] To Israel/Church Acts 5:31

    31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

    That word exalted is the same word Peter used in Acts 2:33

    Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

    Thats How He gives Repentance,by being a Exalted Life giving Spirit, He communicates Life and Repentance to His Body ! And so it also cometh to pass about Christ's words here Jn 6:63

    63 It is the spirit that quickeneth[1 Cor 15:45]; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
     
  8. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Christ alone. 'For there is no name under heaven, given among men by which we must be saved.'
    However, Christ's life of perfect obedience and atoning death will do no one any good unless he repents and places his trust in Him.. 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.'
     
  9. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    MartinM

    Friend I find this to be an awful statement, borderline blasphemous. To utter the words that Christs death does no one any good unless they do something.
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus said that as a counter to what was said in John 11:48, ". . . If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: . . ."
     
  11. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    1 Cor 15:45 He became a Life giving Spirit ! 2

    Continuing our thought from the previous post, its no coincidence that the same word for quicken here in Jn 6:63

    63 It is the spirit that quickeneth or gives life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

    Its the same word used for the same dynamic Paul writes of here 1 Cor 15:45

    45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening or life giving spirit.

    45 So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.ASV

    45 Thus it is written, The first man Adam became a living being (an individual personality); the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving Spirit [restoring the dead to life].AMP

    Its the greek word zoopoieo : which means, I make to live, or I make that to live which was dead, cause ot Live, quicken, or restore to life.

    So the Risen Christ, the Last Adam, via the agency of His Spirit, The Holy Ghost, or the Spirit of Christ it may be called, makes or causes that which was dead to live, as in Eph 2:5 where again the same word is used Eph 2:5

    5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

    5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved),ASV

    5 Even when we were dead (slain) by [our own] shortcomings and trespasses, He made us alive together in fellowship and in union with Christ; [He gave us the very life of Christ Himself, the same new life with which He quickened Him, for] it is by grace (His favor and mercy which you did not deserve) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation).AMP

    Its then and only then are quickened sinners are prepared for the Gospel Kingdom obedience enjoined by Peter here Acts 2:38

    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
     
  12. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    1 Cor 15:45 He became a Life giving Spirit ! 3

    Now in the continuum, the points being made here is that the hearing [spiritually] of Peters words preached, as stated by another Apostle John 1 Jn 4:6

    We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

    And the pricking of the heart for sin, and the willingness to submit to Apostolic instruction in Gospel obedience, that this was the effect and result of the Saviours Out Pouring of the Spirit Acts 2:33

    33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

    This Outpouring of the Spirit is also the New Covenant Blessing on the House of Israel with its attending results Ezk 36:26-27

    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them[Shall do Gospel Obedience].

    The shedding forth of the Spirit that Peter preached Acts 2:33 Paul who was converted later, Preached the same thing Titus 3:5-6

    5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

    You see that ? If Christ is Our Savior, in accordance with that Office, He must shed on us abundantly the Holy Ghost !

    The Spiritual renewing of the Holy Ghost gives us a circumcised heart spiritually, along with spiritual ears to Hear, and is that Spiritual preparation of the good ground hearer Matt 13:23; And so in conclusion, those who on the Day of Pentecost and any other time following, who receive the Word of God Preached 1 Thess 1:6; 2:13 and submit to Gospel ordinances as Baptism in the Name of Jesus for the remission of sins, its because they had first and foremost been quickened to Life Spiritual by their Risen Savior ! 29
     
  13. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Quickened sinners !

    In the Acts 2:38 account we have established that we have quickened sinners, and as such, as New Born Babes their crying out for instruction indicates their desire for the milk of the word and its doctrines. Again remember how these new born/quickened sinners desired to be spiritually instructed Acts 2:37-38

    37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    This was a sign of New and Spiritual Life, and then following the instruction by water baptism, now such is milk for the babes as we learn from Heb 5:12-6:2

    12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

    13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

    14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

    6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

    2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

    Now here in this sequence its noticed that the teaching of baptisms Heb 6:2 is linked to the milk of the word from Heb 5:12-14

    Now this is telling us that the doctrine and instruction of baptism is only for babes in Christ, those newly born again and in need of the milk of the word 1 Pet 2:2

    2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

    Remember Peter had said earlier that these newborn babes had been born again 1 Pet 1:3,23 and had the Gospel preached to them 1 Pet 1:25 !

    This Truth of course condemns all false teachings that water baptism is required as a condition to Salvation, that one must be water baptized to get saved, it also shows that Spiritual Life is Necessary in order to believe the Gospel ! 30
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Luke 3:16-17, ". . . John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable. . . ."
     
  15. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    And your point ?
     
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