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The Bible condemns OSAS doctrine.. yet some folks still believe it

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Mar 28, 2018.

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  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Hebrews 6
    4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

    Gal 5
    4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace
    ..

    Indeed -- the saved. Who then turn
    4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened,...
    6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.



    An interesting point NOT found in Hebrews 6. Instead of "impossible to renew them AGAIN because they never fall, they are always renewed" -- the text "actually says" -

    Impossible -- 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame

    It does not say "so what a wonderful result - there is no need for salvation again " -- no need to renew them to repentance

    Which the text says is also impossible.
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Ezek 18
    4. "The SOUL that sins will die"

    21 “But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. 22 None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

    24 “But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.

    25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear, you Israelites: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust? 26 If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin, they will die for it; because of the sin they have committed they will die.



    Second death.

    "The wages of sin is death" Rom 6:23
    "The soul that sins it shall die" Ezek 18:4
    "The second death" Rev 20 is that debt/punishment that will be applied to the lost, the wicked and it is the only death that the saints do not die - because Christ pays our debt for us.

    Only in the final judgment is it true that all the righteous live and all the wicked die. Obviously.

    For in this life - BOTH the righteous and the wicked die. --- obviously.

    Only in the final judgment do we find "the soul that sins it will die".
    ONLY in the final judgment does the most wicked sinner get complete forgiveness and "LIVE" simply by turning to righteousness in the Gospel context offered in Ezek 18

    In this ilfe -- in the first death -- "do not fear those who KILL the body but cannot kill the soul" Matt 10:27-28

    Not even remotely true in this life and the first death -- since in this life BOTH the righteous and the wicked die.


    Yes - and he offers it based on the Gospel - the wicked do not go to heaven - see Matthew 7. See 1 Cor 6. Only those who accept Christ go to heaven - and Christ is the one saying even they won't go to heaven if they turn away from following Christ in Ezek 18. etc.

    Yes but Romans 2 says that gift is offered on God's terms.

    Some folks use the "grocery store model" for the Gospel where "groceries are paid - and from then on the grocer has no say in what the customer does with them"

    But the Bible uses the "atonement model" where instead of the grocer "getting paid' -- he is tortured. He offers the food in kindness but it is with "strings attached" and living like the devil gets you hell as Romans 2, and Matthew 7 and 1Cor 6 all claim.

    The soul does not die in the first death - see Matthew 10:28 -- it only dies in the second death.
     
  3. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    The Greek states this for fallen away “Gal. 5:4; 2 Pet. 3:17; to be cast ashore,” the actual Greek word,
    ἐκπίπτω (ekpiptō)
    Strong: G1601

    GK: G1738

    to fall off or from, Acts 12:7; 27:32; met. to fall from, forfeit, lose, Gal. 5:4; 2 Pet. 3:17; to be cast ashore, Acts 27:17, 26, 29; to fall to the ground, be fruitless, ineffectual, Rom. 9:6; to cease, come to an end, Jas. 1:11; 1 Pet. 1:24

    So you become ineffectual of grace that is the benefits of Grace.
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Gal 5
    4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace
    ..
    You are free to "find some other text" about those who were never under grace, never joined to Christ and refused the gospel -.. thus they never fall from grace having never been under it - and they were never severed from Christ - having never been joined to Him.

    But this text is talking about those joined to Christ - who are then severed from Christ
    This text is talking about those under grace - who then have fallen from grace.

    In the text it says "fallen from Grace" and "severed from Christ" - which is a problem for OSAS because NO TEXT says "Gospel salvation is to be severed from Christ - and fallen from grace". No such thing as that in all of scripture and we probably both know it.

    True but in your response you never bring yourself to a "severed from Christ" and "fallen from Grace" topic. Yet these are the very "problem" details that you would have needed to "fix" in Gal 5.
     
  5. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    This thread is closed.
     
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