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The Bible or the dead sea scrolls

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by stilllearning, Oct 24, 2010.

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  1. glfredrick

    glfredrick New Member

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    This is exactly it, and reflected by the post just under yours in the thread.

    When people start doing the "I question the veracity of Scriptures/What is the Bible anyway?" sort of line, the answer is found in the historical evidences that point to the accuracy of transmission of the manuscripts supported by God, who promised that His Word would be forever.
     
    #21 glfredrick, Oct 25, 2010
  2. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    Good questions with Simplistic answers I know, but isn't it so?
     
    #22 ituttut, Oct 25, 2010
  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    None. The point was that Jesus used an OT text that does not underlie the KJV. :)
     
    #23 TCassidy, Oct 25, 2010
  4. God's_Servant

    God's_Servant New Member

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    You continue to tell us the the KJV is the "perfect word of God", so it is elementary logic for us the assume when you contrast "the Bible" with the Dead Sea Scrolls that you are referring to the KJV. If you don't give us something else that you believe to be the perfect word of God we will continue to assume you mean the KJV, BECAUSE IT IS PERFECTLY LOGICAL.
     
    #24 God's_Servant, Oct 25, 2010
  5. stilllearning

    stilllearning Active Member

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    Hi God's_Servant

    You said........
    Here is want I said in post #9.
    As you can see, I made it clear, that God’s Word(the Bible), was established long before the KJB........

    Now to your questions.........
    Quote:
    1. What is the "established" word of God?
    The Bible.
    The same Bible that Christians have been studying for almost 2000 years, and the same Old Testament, that saints have always been studying.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Quote:
    2. Who "established" it?
    God established it, by blessing those who studied it.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Quote:
    3. When was it "established"?
    The Old Testament, was truly established, when our Lord spoke of it being God’s Word.
    And the New Testament was truly established, when the New Testament books were canonized.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Now in context with my post..........
    Quote:
    “Any benefit these documents might contain, about Jewish history or manor of life, are offset by the damage they have caused, by casting doubt upon the established Word of God.”
    Here we have God’s Word, the Bible, that for thousands of years has been recognized by God’s people, as being God’s perfectly preserved Word.
    Then, we have these discoveries of old manuscripts.

    Now, what’s the big deal; We already have God’s Word, perfectly preserved;
    The only purpose these discoveries pose, are to cast doubt upon the established Word of God.
     
    #25 stilllearning, Oct 25, 2010
  6. God's_Servant

    God's_Servant New Member

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    Okay, back to my other question, besides the KJV what do you believe is the word of God, there must be something that is identical to it in the past if that is "The Bible" that Christians have used for the entire history of the Church. And according to TCassidy, it isn't the same OT that they have always used. There are many, but the message is the same.
    God has blessed me for studying my ESV, is that his "established" word now?
    I don't think you understand that these old manuscripts are the scriptures that Christians recognized as the word of God until you KJO's came along. Also, show me a line of a perfectly preserved texts. You can't, because they don't exist. In fact, this idea of a perfect KJV is ludicrous, because KJV's have differences very similar to many of the textual variations in the Greek manuscripts.
     
    #26 God's_Servant, Oct 25, 2010
  7. stilllearning

    stilllearning Active Member

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    Hello again God's_Servant

    You said.......
    Perfect, is not “identical”; It can’t be because it is another language.
    But it is “perfect”, because God had promised to preserve His Word for us.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Next you said.......
    Undoubtedly there are differing degrees of being blessed, because of what you said later.......
    God’s people are blessed by God’s Word, because of their faith in “it”!
    If you “doubt” that the Bible you study is God’s preserved Word, I do not understand how God is blessing you with it.

    I am not judging you(that’s not my job), I just can’t understand how anyone can be blessed, by something they doubt.
    --------------------------------------------------
    As I said before, I say again.......
    Now this was already the case, then the KJB came along, and for the next 200+ years, God wonderfully blessed His English speaking Church by it.
    Therefore, the attacks(on the KJB), started and continue today.
    Yet it’s still God’s Word.
     
    #27 stilllearning, Oct 25, 2010
  8. God's_Servant

    God's_Servant New Member

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    It cannot be perfect without being identical to the perfect originals. If it isn't then that is double inspiration. Also I don't see how you draw the line from God promising to preserve his word, to the KJV. It is a bit of a leap.
    That's interesting, because I see very little growth in the teenagers in my church that use the KJV. Why? They don't understand it. It is a foreign language to them. I was the same way until I started using modern translations. Also, it isn't about the specific words, if you want to make a case that it has to be word for word identical then you have no business using a translation. I am not stuck on single words, I look at the text as a whole and get the concepts from it and the vast majority of the NT is not is question, just a small portion, and that increases my faith in it. God has blessed me and millions of other Christians from our use of modern translations that are in our language that we understand.
    God's blessing did not cease after the modern translations came out, he still blesses those who seek him. He blessed the church before the KJV with bibles that weren't identical to it, and he will continue to do so after it is long gone with bibles that aren't identical to it. You see, God doesn't to us to have a perfect translation in order to teach us what he wants. He doesn't need it to be identical to the originals because it isn't the words but the message they convey that God uses in our lives. I believe that fact that no two Greek mss. agree 100% is a testament to this. Once again, if God needs a perfect bible to bless us, those poor Christians of the first 1,500 years of the Church must not have been able to experience God's full blessing because none of their "bibles" were identical. Do you see the fallacy of your logic? Jesus' OT wasn't identical to the one contained in your KJV, now, either Jesus' bible wasn't perfect, yours isn't perfect, or both. Which one? This isn't rhetorical, I want you to tell me. Why does God give us a perfect bible, but doesn't provide one to himself and the apostles. I believe it is because God stresses the meaning not the specific words.
     
    #28 God's_Servant, Oct 25, 2010
  9. God's_Servant

    God's_Servant New Member

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    How do you explain the incredible growth in countries that only have a bible that is translated from the CT and not the same texts as the KJV?
     
    #29 God's_Servant, Oct 25, 2010
  10. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Nipping this mulberry bush discussion in the bud.
     
    #30 NaasPreacher (C4K), Oct 26, 2010
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