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Featured The Biblical truth of Calvinism as revealed in Scripture pt2.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Iconoclast, Nov 18, 2020.

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  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree.

    Another issue is we are never to take teachings as authority but are to test doctrine against what is written.

    People who rely on "God given teachers" are often elevating themselves over God. Why do they believe these teachers? It is often because they tickle the ears of their disciples.

    This is not the fault of the teacher but rather an issue with the one who prostrate themselves before those men.

    God gave us George Whitfield and John Wesley as teachers. But their teachings were not the same. One was a Calvinist, the other adhered to Arminianism.

    These men were equally gifted and given to the Church. But neither are an authority.

    Teachers are not given to express their understanding as divine revelation. They are given not to guide us into a theology but to teach spiritual truths. Wesley and Whitefield taught different understandings BUT the same hospek and identical spiritual truths.

    If we choose one over the other (as some do) as an authority regarding doctrine then we are placing our faith in ourselves for the choosing.

    Even the best of us have to say, like Paul, that we now see as through a glass dimly. We need to stop looking for hidden knowledge and rely on what is written and the spiritual truths God will reveal to us through Scripture, through teachers, and through the Spirit.

    On this board I see too much humanistic philosophy and too little Scrioture, too much Calvinism/ Arminianism, Amyraldianism (ect ) and too little spiritual truth.

    I appreciate your ability to go back to Scripture.
     
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  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Fact is you cannot deal with any scripture offered here, so this response is just your fragmented thoughts which help no one.
    Try and interact with what is offered or no need to waste a post saying nothing.
     
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  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    The very mention of true doctrine brings out the truth suppressors.
    God spoke to Adam and Satan appears and says half God really said direct denial and doubt of God's word.
    The Living Truth Jesus Christ speaks to Pilate who questions what is truth?
    Saul as a religious man thought he had to do many things contrary to the teaching of Jesus until he got saved.
    God tells us in Ephesians 4:11 to 16 is given Godly teachers Apostles prophets to the church as a gift the first thing a truth suppressor will do is undermine the teachers.
    Many times a truth suppressor is narcissistic thinking that they alone see it right or they alone have the truth and all of the teachers are subject to them
     
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  4. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Eph 4
    21If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

    Its in Jesus not John Calvin . The amount of typed out words you have given to promote a system rather than scripture should be embarrassing. This is a problem in christianity. A good teacher should tell their students not to follow them or a system but the scriptures. If your thinking that because Paul said' follow me as i follow christ ' ,think again ,this is Paul . Paul has scripture for us to follow . Its strange the amount of promotion of a system and men and traditions and church history Calvinists elevate. Its ironic because they attack others for this . I'm sure we've all followed Calvinists on social media. Have you noticed how many posts, with quotes and pictures of Paul washer , John Macarthur, RC Sproul, Piper , Calvin, Pink ect ?
    Every Calvinist knows more about these guys than the bible. There's nothing there folks . We don't need a word of this rubbish system. We can drop the whole thing and we would not miss anything. The bible still stands . In fact we are better off without Calvinism . It doesn't do anything but damage bible believers understanding of scripture.
     
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  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another copy and paste thread, exposing Calvinism as unbiblical doctrine. Post after post of Calvinist screed, to prevent any actual discussion of the false claims of Calvinism. Avalanche argumentation on display.
    Is the "T" of the Tulip valid? Nope Matthew 23:13.
    Is the "U" of the Tulip valid? Nope 2 Thessalonians 2:13
    Is the "L" of the Tulip valid? Nope 1 Timothy 2:6
    Is the "I" of the Tulip valid? Nope, Matthew 23:13
     
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  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Truth suppressors come in many forms. You have some that just personally read The Bible or hear The Bible taught and they recognize that has a ring of truth but they hold it down and try to suppress it push it down under so they don't have to live and acknowledging they lack the ability to do so.
    Now some other times on message boards there is a phenomenon that people speak about or you could look it up on Wikipedia of what they call an Internet troll and some time Internet trolls on a message board like this function as truth suppressors who link with other people who also seek to suppress the truth.
    When I looked up the definition of Internet trolls I find that they offer off topic posts ,flaming posts, trying to inflame and distract from the issue at hand. They don't interact with what's already been offered directly they jump off topic.
    So will let the reader decide if any Internet trolls at all or a Internet troll posse has taken a look at this thread and if they're seeking to disrupt it rather than interact with it.\\

    What Is an Internet Troll? (and How to Handle Trolls)
    [​IMG]https://www.howtogeek.com/465416/what-is-an-internet-troll-and-how-to-handle-trolls/
    An internet troll is someone who makes intentionally inflammatory, rude, or upsetting statements online to elicit strong emotional responses in people or to steer the conversation off-topic. They can come in many forms. Most trolls do this for their own amusement, but other forms of trolling are done to push a specific agenda. ...

    Internet troll - Wikipedia
    [​IMG]Internet troll - Wikipedia
    In Internet slang, a troll is a person who starts flame wars or intentionally upsets people on the Internet by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses and normalizing tangential discussion, either for the troll's ...



    Internet Trolling: How Do You Spot a Real Troll?
    [​IMG]Here's What You Need to Know About Internet Trolling
    The internet troll is a modern version of the mythological version. They hide behind their computer screens, and actively go out of their way to cause trouble on the internet. Like the mythological troll, the internet troll is angry and disruptive in every possible way — often for no real reason at all.
    10 Types of Internet Trolls You'll Meet Online
    [​IMG]Internet Trolls and the Many Ways They Try to Ruin Your Day
    An Internet troll is a member of an online social community who deliberately tries to disrupt, attack, offend or generally cause trouble within the community by posting certain comments, photos, videos, GIFs or some other form of online content.. You can find trolls all over the Internet — on message boards, in your YouTube video comments, on Facebook, on dating sites, in blog comment ...
     
    #26 Iconoclast, Nov 22, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Barry Johnson,

    Good, you used a verse...not really addressing the topic, but you are trying!

    [QUOTE]Its in Jesus not John Calvin [/QUOTE].

    Good, you know that Jesus is not John Calvin, John Calvin is not Jesus.very good Barry....I owe you a cookie as a prize

    1] Your lack of understanding is what is embarrassing indeed.

    2] What was framed out is from a Book on Calvinism/Arminianismdo you think it might mention John Calvin?

    3] You mention John Calvin more than I do, with no substance behind your tweets.

    4] I have started several threads dealing with scripture being God's greatest gift to mankind, but you do not care.

    5] This thread has more scripture in it , than your last 50 posts, and there is plenty more to come, now that the introductory phase is up and running.


    Every reformed person and teacher affirms that, so it shows the true nature of your post, as a troll posting. You have been asked to interact with what has been posted on other threads, as well as this one. You cannot so you seek to dismiss what is offered.
    No one forced you to come on here did they?
    Your authority seems to be the defective 101 podcast, which has been found wanting.:Cautious


    Actually, I and all other Calvinists actually know what Paul wrote;
    13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

    14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

    15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

    16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

    17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

    18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

    19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

    20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:


    Paul and the Apostles were all about the word, and pursued Christ, searching the scriptures and offers himself as an example for us.

    .

    The ignorance of the troll posse is to suggest that reformed persons are about, men and" prostrating themselves before men", are nothing but troll posse suggestions seeking to divert away from truth.
    No reformed persons do any such thing, and only a dishonest poster would suggest such a foul idea.
    Every reformed Confession of faith, and catechism starts with the great gift of scripture, and how it is all Christ-centered.


    To suggest anything else is dishonest and lying, which some evidently have no problem doing:Cautious


    People who have found such solid teachers share the information with others who desire to learn also. To suggest this is not correct again shows the true nature of your post.:Cautious

     
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  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    This failed post is a repeat of the same twaddle that is constantly posted, by this poster. it has been answered each time it is posted, so we will not waste time with it once again. the poster can always start another thread to see if anyone enjoys his post, he might have one or two devoted fans.

    I posted this earlier;
    Internet troll - Wikipedia
    [​IMG]Internet troll - Wikipedia
    In Internet slang, a troll is a person who starts flame wars or intentionally upsets people on the Internet by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses and normalizing tangential discussion, either for the troll's ...
     
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Some have suggested there is no scripture being offered so;
    (Rom. 9:19–24).
    19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

    20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

    21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

    22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

    23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

    24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

    Man was created to live in a covenant relationship with God (Gen. 1:27–28;

    27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

    28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

    2:16–17;
    16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

    17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    Jn. 17:1–2;
    17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

    2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

    Rom. 8:28–31;
    28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

    29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?



    Eph. 1:3–14). There have been two covenants that determine the state of man before God—what are commonly called the covenant of works and the covenant of grace.

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

    6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

    7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

    8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

    9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

    10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

    11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

    12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

    13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

    14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.



    Looks like more than enough , but there is plenty more for anyone who is not to lazy to read and search them out like the Bereans did.

     
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  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Thread has devolved into juvenile name calling.

    If members can discuss the topic (whatever the topic was) in a Christian-like manner please feel free to start another thread.

    Please refrain from ad hominem.
     
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