Featured The Blessedness - Romans 4:6-8

Here are the facts, as I have stated:

Faith reckoned as righteousness, according to scripture. Forensic justification invented by Luther at a time when legalism was the mindset of the day. Particular Baptists following Calvin and Luther in their unbiblical doctrines. Anabaptist and general Baptist following a "third way" -- neither Catholic nor Protestant, but Biblical.

Imputed righteousness and forensic justification a legalistic fallacy.

Imputed and reckoned not synonymous terms, for any knowledgeable linguist.

"Reckoned" the literal term in the scripture in question.

Those are the absolute facts. Biblicist doesn't like it, so he resorts to insults.

 

That's a lie. It is you who started with the insults, as anyone can see by reading the thread.

 

The only way he knows how to deal with evidence is to ignore it.

 

Biblicist,

You are not telling the truth. YOU brought me into this debate when you started speaking falseness about me.

 

Biblicist,

You STILL have not answered the questions I give you. You speak many untruths about people here to try to defend your false beliefs.

I ask you AGAIN, what is the works of the ungodly man that you speak?
Answer the question!

You said, “ He is still an "ungodly" man in regard to his own works as none of his own works measure up to GODLINESS or sinless perfection.”
What are the ungodly works?!!! Are you calling obeying God an ungodly work? ANSWER!

 

Michael,

Biblicist is not speaking the truth, as you know.

Check out post #11, there you will see that Biblicist brought me into this post in falseness first.

 

(Alright, everybody take note of the truth)

Biblicist, you said that this statement by Moriah -- "It is worthless and damaging explanations given in this group" -- is a personal attack. That is a lie. That is definitely NOT a personal attack!

YOU continue with the personal attacks YOU started by adding the lie and personal attack above, that we have a cultic mindset. You are the lowest of the low.

 

I have given all kinds of evidence, to you and the other accusers on this forum, in many different threads. All you can do is ignore that evidence because it punches holes in your shallow false doctrines. The only thing you have left is initiating personal attacks, just like Biblicist. He has already trotted out the "cultist" charge; that's a favorite of you, him, and others.

 

And I have shown that the Romans 4 passage does NOT say what you claim it does.

Deny all you want, but "reckoned" and "imputed" do not mean the same thing, and the passage literally says "reckoned", not imputed.

Counting, or reckoning our faith as righteousness is different from the Magisterial Reformers' doctrine of imputed righteousness, or attributing righteousness to us in a legalistic manner. The former leads to correct doctrine of justification; the latter leads to false forensic justification.

I have NOT gone to tradition; I have gone straight to the scripture. I have shown how those in the history of the church have believed about this -- the Anabaptists who were correct, and the Magisterial Reformers who were wrong.

Oh, what is "secular church history" :laugh:

 

I read it; you are correct.

 

I'm sorry that you cannot distinguish between our faith reckoned as righteousness -- which is what the Bible teaches -- and righteousness being attributed or imputed to us. There is a difference, a great difference. It is the difference that separates Eastern Orthodox and Anabaptist theology from the Latinized West -- Roman and Protestant. You think you have escaped the errors of Rome and the Magisterial Reformers, but your mind is imprisoned in the Latin West where it will probably remain entrenched. You have escaped Rome only to fall into the error of the Magisterial Reformers and their false doctrine of forensic, legalistic justification. I prefer the original, New Testament, early church, Eastern, and Anabaptist views. The Western view of justification is cold, detached, and legalistic. I don't find God to be any of those.

P.S. I don't want to fight with you any longer, so I'll just drop it.

 

Are you kidding? You compare me to the Catholics and SBM, and I am not supposed to take offense to it. You do not understand my beliefs, so do not try to tell others what I believe about the ungodly man. You even continue your slander against me personally when you tell me try honesty for a change.

 

I decided that I am not going to discuss anything with those who keep trotting out the "cultist" charge and are allowed to get away with it.

 

Scripture 5 says, “However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.
That means that the man who does not trust in giving of the blood of animals to justify him, but trusts only in God to justify him.

The scriptures 1-6 are, again, about works, such as circumcision. Abraham believed in God, God commanded Abraham to give a seal of his faith, and that seal was circumcision. Abraham took Ishmael, and all those born in his household or bought with his money, every male in his household and circumcised them. Now, did God consider Abraham righteous because he did the work of circumcising his son and all the males in his household, or did God consider him righteous before that? Abraham was considered righteous before that WORK OF CIRCUMCISION! THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT WE DO NOT HAVE TBEY GOD, for Abraham obeyed God BEFORE the WORK of circumcision, Abraham obeyed when God told him where to go. Abraham obeyed God when God told Abraham to offer Isaac as a sacrifice.

Abraham BELIEVED AND OBEYED GOD before he was circumcised.

Against all hope Abraham BELIEVED God that he would be the father of many nations. How do you get that that is NO PERSONAL PARTICIPATION WHEN IT IS ABRAHAM WHO HAD HOPE? How do you think there is no personal participation when it is Abraham who had faith?

God credits OUR faith to us.

 

I definitely know what you mean.