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The Bride of Christ

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by prophecynut, Jun 10, 2005.

  1. prophecynut

    prophecynut New Member

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    John the Baptist in naming the disciples as guests of the bridegroom excluded them and all other believers as the bride of Christ. He would not of associated them with the Church for he died before it began and had no knowledge of it. John was not indwelled with the Holy Spirit and belongs to the OT dispensation.


    Wife and bride are synonymous? Do you have a dictionary?

    You should of quoted the entire verse. John is with the seven angels who have the seven last plagues just before they are pour out on the earth, the same as in Rev. 15:1. John sees the New Jerusalem just before the seven last plagues are poured out, which includes Armageddon (v.16) and the final day of God's wrath (v.17-21), followed by the Second Coming. At the time John is shown the New Jerusalem only the Church saints or "the wife of the Lamb" dwell there, the OT and Tribualtion saints will be resurrected at the Second Coming to join us. The bride is the New Jerusalem (v.2) where all saints will dwell during the new heaven and new earth after the Millennium.


    This is correct, why are you adding this nonsense:

    A bride is not a wife until married. A bride does not have a close and personal relationship until married. This relationship cannot be complete until married.

    Is your relationship with Christ a close and personal one? Is this relationship like a bride/bridegroom relationship or a wife/husband relationship? If you insist on being the bride then you don't have a relationship.

    You did not answer on Jer. 2:2, need help?
     
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    No I don't need help. Jer.2:2 is irrelevant.
    "who AS a bride."
    It is a simile. The Bible uses figures of speech all throughout. You need to be on the look out for them.
    It also compares Ephraim "as a silly dove."
    Moab to "washpot."
    Israel to "a whore"
    Need I say more.
    DHK
     
  3. prophecynut

    prophecynut New Member

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    "silly dove" is Ephraim.
    "washpot" is Moab.
    "whore" is Israel.
    "bride" is ______.

    I assure you this is relevant. Please fill in the blank.
     
  4. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Jeremiah 2:2 Go and cry in the ears of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; I remember thee, the kindness of thy youth, the love of thine espousals, when thou wentest after me in the wilderness, in a land that was not sown.

    And where are you getting this from??
    Not from Jeremiah 2:2
     
  5. prophecynut

    prophecynut New Member

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    Acts 7:35-36 tells us about the angel of the Lord appearing to Moses in the flaming bush on Mt. Sinai. The angel "led them out of Egypt and did wonders and miraculous signs in Egypt, at the Red Sea and for forty years in the desert."

    Exodus 3:2-4
    There the angel of the LORD appeared to him in flames of fire from within the bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up. So Moses thought, "I will go over and see this strange sight - why the bush does not burn up." When the LORD saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him from within the bush , "Moses! Moses!"

    Notice that the angel speaking to Moses is God, who is none other than the pre incarnate Christ. WOW! He led the Hebrews out of Egypt and "did wonders and miraculous signs."

    Exodus 13:21
    "By day the LORD (Jesus) went ahead of them in a pillar of cloud to guide them on their way and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, so they they could travel by day or night."

    Jer. 2:2
    "I (Jesus) remember the devotion of your youth, how as a bride (Hebrews) you loved me and followed me through the desert, through a land not sown (Israel).

    Way back then Jesus considered the Hebrews and eventual Israelites his bride. WOW! When God became human he proposed to his "bride" the Kingdom of God, but was refused. With no relationship established with his people he turned to the Gentiles who accepted the gospel and became his wife. At the Second Coming Israel the bride will accept him as the bridegroom at the "wedding of the Lamb" (Rev. 19:7).
     
  6. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Jeremiah 2:2 Go and cry in the ears of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; I remember thee, the kindness of thy youth, the love of thine espousals, when thou wentest after me in the wilderness, in a land that was not sown. KJV

    Jeremiah 2:2 Go, and cry in the ears of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith Jehovah, I remember for thee the kindness of thy youth, the love of thine espousals; how thou wentest after me in the wilderness, in a land that was not sown. ASV

    Jeremiah 2:2 Go and cry in the ears of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith Jehovah: I remember for thee the kindness of thy youth, the love of thine espousals, when thou wentest after me in the wilderness, in a land not sown. DARBY

    Jeremiah 2:2 Go, and cry in the ears of Jerusalem, saying, Thus says Yahweh, I remember for you the kindness of your youth, the love of your weddings; how you went after me in the wilderness, in a land that was not sown. WEB

    Jeremiah 2:2 `Go, and thou hast called in the ears of Jerusalem, saying, Thus said Jehovah: I have remembered for thee The kindness of thy youth, the love of thine espousals, Thy going after Me in a wilderness, in a land not sown. YLT

    Where are you getting "bride" from? No reputable translation has "bride" in it, which leads me to say that you are just making this stuff up.
    DHK
     
  7. prophecynut

    prophecynut New Member

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    Compare the two versions.

    NIV
    Go and proclaim in the hearing of Jerusalem: "I remember the devotion of your youth. How as a bride you loved me and followed me through the desert, through a land not sown.
     
  8. prophecynut

    prophecynut New Member

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    "espousal" - an agreement to marry, bethrothal, engagement.
     
  9. prophecynut

    prophecynut New Member

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    "youth" - the period of life which one passes from childhood to maturity.

    Israel had only one youth and has one espousal, not more than one espousal as in "espousals" incorrectly rendered in all those versions you quoted.
     
  10. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    There are hundreds of references through the Old Testament just like this. There are also an equivalent number of references (if not more) referrng to Israel as a whore or an adulteress. Jer.2:2 is a simple reference to the love that God has for the nation of Israel, and nothing more. We don't live under the law, or in the Old Testament dispensation. The verse has no application to the bride of Christ.
    DHK
     
  11. prophecynut

    prophecynut New Member

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    I see you have thrown in the towel - thanks for the opportunity to sharpen my sword. [​IMG]
     
  12. prophecynut

    prophecynut New Member

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    English Standard Version

    I remember the devotion of your youth, your love as a bride, how you followed me in the wilderness, in a land not sown.


    Contempory English Version

    When you were my bride, you loved me and followed me through the desert.
     
  13. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    The key word is were
    They are no longer. They rejected their Messiah when Christ came. "He came to his own but his own received him not." They crucified him instead.

    Jesus is coming for his bride, when he comes for the church.

    1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    --the dead in Christ
    --we which are alive in Christ.
    These make up the bride, for whom Christ will come.
    Paul is not writing about the Jews here. The phrase "dead in Christ" or even "in Christ" never refers to those saints that lived before Christ. Christ comes for his own, the church, for which he died, and shed his blood for. I have given you the evidence in Acts 20:28 and Eph.5:25, as well as in Rev.21:9. The bride is the church.
    DHK
     
  14. prophecynut

    prophecynut New Member

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  15. prophecynut

    prophecynut New Member

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    Two main reasons why Christians think the Church is the bride of Christ:

    Failure to recognize that John the Baptist could not of associated the Church with the bride of Christ, because the Church was still a mystery.

    And the second reason:

    2 Cor. 11:1-3 NIV
    Paul was addressing believers in this passage. He could not bear the thought that there might be any rival to Christ and his gospel. He wanted to present them to Christ as a "pure virgin," which is a metaphor for the "pure devotion" in verse 3. "Pure virgin" is not a metaphor for bride, rather a call for us to remain spiritually pure by not accepting "a different spirit" or "a different gospel" (v. 4).

    The KJV has "simplicity that is in Christ" instead of "pure devotion to Christ" (NIV). The KJV is awkward in that "simplicity" is unrelated to our spiritual purity in Him and the context of this passage.

    The KJV has "I have espoused you to one husband" instead of " I have promised you one husband" (NIV). The KJV is awkward in that a bride is never espoused to a "husband." This has contributed to the false doctrine of the Church as Christ's bride yet no where else in the KJ Bible is the Church identified as such. The husband/wife relationship spoken of in Eph. 5:22-23 describes Christ's relationship to the Church, and not a bridegroom/bride relationship.
     
  16. prophecynut

    prophecynut New Member

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    Here are the relationships between God and his creation:

    Yahweh's wife became unfaithful so He turned his back against Israel and hid his face. He has not rejected Israel outright but will take her back and their relationship restored in the Millennium.

    Christ's bride rejected the kingdom so He turned his back against Israel and chose the Gentiles to receive the gospel. He has not rejected her outright but will return and establish Israel's kingdom in the Millennium.

    Christ's wife received the gospel by faith through the Holy Spirit and was rewarded eternal life. He will come back and catch up His wife to be with Him forever in the Father's house.

    Yahweh is the husband and Israel is the wife.
    Jesus is the bridegroom and Israel is the bride.
    Jesus is the husband and the Church is the wife.

    Any questions?
     
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