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Featured The case for the possibility of losing salvation?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by StefanM, Dec 16, 2016.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    In order to have us able to lose salvation, per them, we would have to commit apostesy, and turn our back ad reject Jesus, hence "free will", as they would see God honoring Free will eough to let us go to Hell agin!
     
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Just because someone takes it too far does not justify a broad brush
     
  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Yes...the devil is in the details. :)
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Returning to topic: Is it possible to lose your salvation? First lets define salvation. (1) Positional Sanctification occurs when God transfers a person spiritually into Christ, where his or her sin burden is removed and the arise in Christ born anew, created for good works. This "salvation" cannot be lost.

    (2) Progressive sanctification is the result of our efforts to strive to be like Christ and to serve Him. The result can be that we enter heaven "abundantly." If we do not strive or our efforts are misplaced, then we still enter heaven but as one escaping from a fire. Thus we can lose or fail to attain our rewards, and therefore "lose" that part of salvation.

    (3) Ultimate sanctification will occur when Christ returned. We will be changed into glorified bodies, freed at last from the presence of sin. This aspect of salvation cannot be lost.

    Verses used to support the loss of salvation refer to those who were never saved, or to the loss of rewards.
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    That would be the logical sense one can lose their salvation tough, correct?
    Either Godis keeping us secured, or we are ourselves?
     
  6. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    Where do you see this supposed "new nature that cannot decide to totally turn away" in Scripture?

    Oh, never mind. You never answer from scripture anyway...
     
  7. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    I used to believe I could lose my salvation. I was not a believer, and thought that "saved" meant "safe"

    There was no concept of being rescued from the consequences of sin, or any knowledge of the purpose of Jesus' death.

    In my understanding, salvation was an opportunity. I could either obey God and go to heaven, or not obey God and go to hell.

    I thought I was safe as long as I was living for God - in the name of Christ, of course
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    i John, as those of us who have been born again will not habitually be sinning, and will not shy away from Him!
     
  9. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    And that's found in Yeshua1:1....lol
     
  10. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    There simply is no case for "losing salvation."

    Those who think salvation can be lost do not understand what salvation in Christ is in the first place.

    I will address question four, as it is the only valid question I see given.

    The first thing to understand is that man is born outside of relationship with God. This is the result of the Fall, and all Adam's descendants are born spiritually dead, because spiritual life is only possible through union with God. So every man that is born (and this includes both male and female) has a need for the Life only God can give. When a man is given this life is it accomplished by that person being immersed into God Himself. While many reject it, the fact is that it was not until Pentecost that this Life was bestowed upon men. They balk at the thought that men like Abraham, Moses, and David did not have spiritual life. That is only partly true, because we understand that the Spirit of God has always worked in the hearts and lives of men. But, we cannot overlook the truth taught by Christ which clearly states that immersion into God would not take place until the Comforter came.

    So when a man is born again we understand that he is new, and has life...because he is placed into God. All men prior to the Cross offered up the deaths and blood of animals for the temporary atonement for sin, which is contrasted with the Sacrifice of Christ which makes men complete in regard to sacrifice for sin forever:

    Hebrews 10:14
    King James Version (KJV)


    14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.



    This is, in my view, the clearest statement of Eternal Security in all of Scripture. The First Century Jew would have understood what the writer was conveying more clearly than those reading a translation. The "perfection" here is contrasted with a previous statement:


    Hebrews 10

    King James Version (KJV)


    1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.


    2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.


    3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.


    4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.





    The Old Testament Saint was indeed saved by grace, and his eternal destination just as sure as our own, but, that does not mean that we ascribe to them a status of being born again redeemed followers of Christ. The writer also makes this clear here:


    Hebrews 9:12-15

    King James Version (KJV)


    12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.


    13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:


    14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?


    15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.



    The "First Testament" mentioned here is the Covenant of Law. No-one was saved through the Law, this is an impossibility, as Paul makes clear often in his writings.

    Here is a similar statement to that above from Romans:





    Romans 3:20-25

    King James Version (KJV)


    20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.


    21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;


    22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:


    23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;


    24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:


    25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;



    Many today confuse the teaching of Scripture and think men are saved by faith through grace, when in fact they are saved by the grace of God only. salvation is a gift, it is not earned, and therefore cannot be forfeited.

    Hebrews 10:14
    King James Version (KJV)


    14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.




    Christ did what the Law could not do, he brought completion to remission of sins. When the Writer states that "He has perfected forever" those who are sanctified, he means that the completion brought is eternal.


    God bless.
     
  11. stevewm1963

    stevewm1963 Member
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    I believe those who believe we can lose our salvation are reading scripture with blinders on! If were able to lose our salvation would that not make God a liar? God cannot lie and he won't take back what he has given us! Eternal is forever! This is my belief and maybe I'll post every bit of scripture to support my belief when I have time!
     
  12. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    I don't think it is so much reading with blinders on, because there are many sincere believers who have been indoctrinated into believing loss of salvation. Some of their teachers are very articulate in their presentations, and the primary reason it is believable is not so much what they are sharing with their students, but what they are not sharing. The best way to address the L.O.S.T. (loss of salvation teachers) is to address their proof texts. It is very easy to pull a verse or two out of context and convince shallow students that it means something that is not found in the text.

    For those of us who have complete faith in the Salvation of our Lord, it is best to show grace and strive to show them why they hold to erroneous doctrine. All of us have been wrong about a few things as we have grown in Christ, and can look back without much condemnation of self. Shall we not extend that same grace to those still in error?


    God bless.
     
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  13. Archie the Preacher

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    I note the overwhelming number of replies from those who accept 'eternal security' and very little response from any who doubt, question or reject that view.

    Perhaps if this were posted in a more Arminian setting, the results would be different. The question might be different as well.

    Just for clarity, I have no doubt as to my Salvation, from where and who it came, and that He has me, not I have Him.
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Think that would be because all calvinists. and most non cals accept eternal security of the saved!
     
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    You can't lose what you don't have. If your eternal salvation is in Christ, you have given yourself to Him through faith and repentance, then you don't have your eternal life, He does. And if you don't have it you can't lose it. QED
     
  16. stevewm1963

    stevewm1963 Member
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    Why would you put it in a more Armenian setting when you know without a doubt what the response would be?
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are there any real armianinists here?
     
  18. stevewm1963

    stevewm1963 Member
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    In all honest I cannot say! I've seen some on here that's questionable lol
     
  19. Baptist Brother

    Baptist Brother Active Member

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    I think Pentecostals are into constantly losing salvation. But, salvation is an act of the Holy Spirit, not of ourselves. If it's God that did it, not us, then it makes no sense that it's up to us to preserve it. I believe there are many people who believe themselves to be saved but are not. If they renounce Christ, they were never Christ's to begin with.
     
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  20. stevewm1963

    stevewm1963 Member
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    I think 1 John 2:19 pretty much describes those you're referring to!
     
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