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Featured The Casual gospel

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Internet Theologian, Dec 9, 2015.

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  1. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    This is what I posted for you in post #72
    Your opinion vs. Paul's inspired testimony written in God's Word.
    I will side with Paul, not your opinion.
    Six times Paul gives an extensive testimony concerning his own salvation, and that is just in the Book of Acts!
    Yet you say "testimonies are overrated." Unbelievable!
    Those unwilling to give their testimony are usually those who have no testimony to give.

    Are you speaking about this verse?

    Act 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

    There is no quote from anywhere or anyone here. It is Agrippa's rebuttal to Paul's testimony.
     
  2. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    John 4:39-41 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.
    So when the Samaritans were come unto him, they besought him that he would tarry with them: and he abode there two days.
    And many more believed because of his own word;

    We see the importance of testifying and preaching in this passage.

    When I share the Gospel I keep the focus on scripture but relate some of it with my own testimony.

    Besides, all REAL testimonies Glorify Christ and have scriptural relevance.

    Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
     
  3. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    There is quoting or paraphrasing in this passage. Why do you look right past verse 23 which is alluding to Isaiah 49 and is concerning Christ, not to mention of Christ's heavenly vision to him? Why 'proof text' one verse out of context? Use the entire passage instead, like 2 Timothy 2:15 instructs bro.
     
  4. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Paul gives a powerful message of the gospel both using scripture and his testimony.
    Agrippa says: You almost persuade me to be a Christian.
    There is no reference to any Scripture. Agrippa was not an OT scholar. Why would he be making any reference to Scripture. He wouldn't. He was an unsaved petty city-king as it were. Even the phrase he used was used in scorn.

    Act 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
    As Walvoord aptly puts it:

    Agrippa was using irony, asking Paul, as it were, “Do you think that with a little persuasion you can make me a Christian?” In other words, he was evading the pressure of the apostle's words with a joke.
     
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    DHK

    .

    Because you posted error does not mean I am avoiding the topic of this thread.
    You have made a serious blunder on the Acts 13 passage and now you want to scramble away from it so no one see's it.
    My responses deal directly with the OP.

    In the interest of truthfulness we have to expose this. Jon S is concerned that our conduct should be according to truth...so let's be honest about it.....you asked me to look at pauls sermons...I picked out the two in Acts 13 and showed how Paul focused on Christ and some redemptive history.....there was no "personal testimony". that was in post#62

    You respond smugly and suggest that I was "avoiding" verse 47- you did this in post 64,
    let's look at your post;
    This is absolutely wrong. I explained it to you;
    You then gave another episode of uncle DHK's story time suggesting we do not have the full account...lol, because there was no personal testimony here,,,,lolo_O
    here is this magical speculation:rolleyes:

    RoflmaoRoflmaoRoflmaoCautiousCautiousCautiousEekEekEekEek
    So the magical explanation is .....there must have been a testimony meeting...it could not just be the preaching of Jesus and His kingdom coming to the gentiles as isa 49 predicted,lol
    Yes we should ignore the great prophecy of the Servant of the Lord and His Kingdom coming to those ordained ,elect sheep.
    We should believe your carnal speculation instead of what the Holy Spirit said, and you have the nerve to suggest I am not following the scripture but giving an opiniono_Oo_O

    Now these are supposed to prove your theory...let's look.
    Acts 20:17-28;
    [/QUOTE]
     
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  6. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I don't believe so.
    However, you are just beginning to clear some things up for me. I have asked, and more than once, for the "question" to be restated or clarified, as the subject (as far as I was concerned) was Paul's testimony before Agrippa. The verse under discussion was:

    Act 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
    --Therefore we were simply talking past each other.
    The discussion has been about Paul's testimony for quite some time now. This is now post #86.
    Jon S had the discernment to see what was happening: two parties speaking past each other about two different things. The cause: one of them refusing to restate his question as asked. I can't read minds.
    And now in post #86 I can't read your mind. How many posts back is this? We have been on a different topic for some time.
    However, I highlighted for you, not only in vs.47, but in the other verses of that same passage, how Paul used the first person singular, thus testifying of himself and his own experiences. Do you understand that. That is what verse 47 is saying.

    Acts 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
    --Quote or no quote, Paul applies the statement to himself. He is the light to the Gentiles and declares himself to be that light. Even if it happens to be a fulfillment of prophecy it wouldn't make a difference. It is Paul using this verse describing himself. The Lord commanded us. That is personal testimony.
    Because you explain anything doesn't make me wrong. au contraire.
    Look, Luke makes a very general statement:

    Acts 13:49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.\
    --It is obvious that a lot more happened than what Luke wrote. We don't have all the history, only what Luke wrote. "All the region or regions" are not published in the Bible.
    I don't know where you are getting this "servant of the Lord." Paul is testifying of himself as a servant of God.
    If either one of you had read carefully my previous posts I had already posted concerning that verse a quote from the Bible Knowledge Commentary which says:

    In thus turning to the Gentiles Paul and Barnabas saw an outworking of the prophecy of Isa_49:6, I have made you a light to the Gentiles. This Old Testament passage has at least three applicationsto Israel (Isa_49:3), to Christ (Luk_2:29-32), and to Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles.

    The immediate context is Paul's application of the verse to himself.
     
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    21:39-22:22;
    Paul has to give his testimony to explain why all the commotion so he would not be kept in jail

    23:6-23:10; vs 6-10 he is speaking to Pharisees aso he tells them he also was a Pharisee.
    11 And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.
    The Lord instructs him where he is to bear witness of JESUS at Rome....


    17 And it came to pass, that after three days Paul called the chief of the Jews together: and when they were come together, he said unto them, Men and brethren, though I have committed nothing against the people, or customs of our fathers, yet was I delivered prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans.

    18 Who, when they had examined me, would have let me go, because there was no cause of death in me.

    19 But when the Jews spake against it, I was constrained to appeal unto Caesar; not that I had ought to accuse my nation of.

    20 For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.

    21 And they said unto him, We neither received letters out of Judaea concerning thee, neither any of the brethren that came shewed or spake any harm of thee.

    22 But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against.

    23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

    24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not

    after Paul gave legal testimony he tells us what he preached here in verse 23, it was once again, the scriptures concerning the good news of the Kingdom and Jesus the King had come to earth.
     
  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    "DHK
    I told you when you changed it to a different topic...after your blunder which you proudly repeat in this post;





    However, I highlighted for you, not only in vs.47, but in the other verses of that same passage, how Paul used the first person singular, thus testifying of himself and his own experiences. Do you understand that. That is what verse 47 is saying.

     
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    pt2
    It is from isa 49

    K.Ribblebarger-
    In Isaiah 41:8-9, the prophet spoke of a future restoration of Israel in these terms. “But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, the offspring of Abraham, my friend; you whom I took from the ends of the earth, and called from its farthest corners, saying to you, `You are my servant, I have chosen you and not cast you off.'” The same promise is reiterated in the next chapter of Isaiah (42:1-7), when the LORD declares of his servant, “I am the Lord; I have called you in righteousness; I will take you by the hand and keep you; I will give you as a covenant for the people, a light for the nations”( v. 6). Isaiah continues to speak of this servant in chapters 44 (vv. 1-2) and 45 (v. 4).
    But is this how the New Testament interprets these messianic prophecies regarding the servant of the Lord? Who is this servant of the Lord? It is the nation of Israel, or is it Jesus, Israel’s Messiah?
    In order to answer this questions, we must see that the gospel writers interpret these prophecies from Isaiah as fulfilled in the messianic mission of Jesus. First, in Matthew 12:15-21, for example, when Jesus withdrew from the crowds who had followed him, Matthew reports that this event fulfilled what had been spoken in Isaiah the prophet. This event serves to demonstrate that Jesus is the true servant of the Lord.

    Second, as Jesus cast out demons and healed the sick, Matthew saw in this the fulfillment of Isaiah’s prophecies of a suffering servant who would take upon himself our infirmities and carry our diseases (Matthew 8:17 with Isaiah 53:4).

    Third, in Luke’s gospel, Luke speaks of both Israel (cf. Luke 1:54) and David as the servant of God (Luke 1:69). Yet in Acts, Luke pointedly speaks of Jesus as the servant of God (Acts 3:13). After his crucifixion, God raised Jesus from the dead so that people everywhere might be called to repentance (3:26).

    Fourth, when the Ethiopian eunuch hears a reading from Isaiah 53:7-8 and asks Philip about whom this prophecy refers, Luke tells us that Philip informed the Ethiopian that this passage does indeed refer to Jesus (Acts 8:34-35).

    But this is not all that is in view here. In Hosea 11:1, Hosea predicted a time when “Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.” But in Matthew 2:15, the evangelist tells us that Hosea’s prophecy was fulfilled when his parents took Jesus to Egypt to protect him from Herod’s “slaughter of the innocents” (Matthew 2:3-18). Yet, after Herod had died, God called Jesus and his family to return to Nazareth. Matthew takes a passage from Hosea, which clearly refers to Israel, and tells his reader that this passage is now fulfilled in Jesus Christ! He does this to prove to his largely Jewish audience that Jesus is the servant of the Lord, foretold throughout the Old Testament (especially Isaiah).

    By now it should be clear that according to many New Testament writers, Jesus is the true servant, the true son and the true Israel of God. Recall too that it was Isaiah who spoke of Israel and the descendants of Abraham as the people of God. It as through the seed of Abraham that the nations of the earth would be blessed.

    Therefore, even as Jesus is the true Israel, he is the true seed of Abraham. This is the point that Paul is making in Galatians 3:7-8, when he says “know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, `In you shall all the nations be blessed.'”

    Paul’s words here, are important for several reasons. First, Paul tells us that Abraham believed the very same gospel that he preached to the Gentile Galatians. There has only been one plan of salvation and one gospel from the very beginning. This, of course, raises very serious questions about the dispensational notion of “clearly distinct” redemptive purposes for national Israel and the Gentiles, as is evident when Paul goes on to say in Galatians 3:29, that “if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.”

    Second, the one gospel promise from the very beginning of redemptive history is that the true children of Abraham, whether they be Jew or Gentile, are heirs of the promise, if they belong to Jesus Christ, the true seed of Abraham. But as Robert Strimple points out, an important word of clarification is certainly in order. “We [amillennarians] say: `Yes, the nation of Israel was the people of God in the old covenant. Now in the new covenant the believing church is the people of God.’ And thus we quickly run past (or we miss the blessed point entirely) the fact that we Christians are the Israel of God, Abraham’s seed, and the heirs to the promises, only because by faith, we are united to him who alone is the true Israel, Abraham’s one seed.” (See Strimple, “Amillennialism,” in Bock, ed., Three Views of the Millennium and Beyond, 89).

    The ramifications for this upon one’s millennial view should now be obvious. If Jesus is the true Israel of God, and if the New Testament writers apply to Jesus those Old Testament prophecies referring to Israel as God’s son or servant, then what remains of the dispensationalist’s case that these prophecies remain yet to be fulfilled in a future millennium? They vanish in Jesus Christ, who has fulfilled them!




    Here you repeat your wrong idea; we will deal with the bogus bk commentary in a minute;


    [/QUOTE]
     
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    If either one of you had read carefully my previous posts I had already posted concerning that verse a quote from the Bible Knowledge Commentary which says:

    In thus turning to the Gentiles Paul and Barnabas saw an outworking of the prophecy of Isa_49:6, I have made you a light to the Gentiles. This Old Testament passage has at least three applications

    to Israel (Isa_49:3), Isa 49:3 is not speaking of the nation, but the Son.....Jesus is the fulfillment of the Covenant Son...from Ex.$:22

    22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

    23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

    the nation was called my son.....here is hos11;
    11 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
    Mt applies this to Jesus;
    mt2:15-
    13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

    14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:

    15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

    The Holy Spirit declares it is fulfilled IN Christ the second exodus...if you cannot connect the dots, I cannot help you....


    to Christ (Luk_2:29-32), and to Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles
    .
    okay
    No...gentiles do not come to Paul....the come to The servant of the lord that Paul preaches, Paul quotes isa 49 again in 2 cor 6;
    We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

    2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
    Isaiah 49King James Version (KJV)

    49 Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The Lord hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

    2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;

    3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

    4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the Lord, and my work with my God.

    5 And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.

    6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

    7 Thus saith the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the Lord that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.

    8 Thus saith the Lord, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;

    So are you suggesting Isa was speaking of PAUL in verse6, or verse 8, when Paul himself is preaching Christ?
     
  11. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    Yes, he does this then accuses others of not using the entire passage. He wants to stick to one verse and then eiesegete dhkology into it. He needs to own up to his errors and deceit. He's plain wrong and this is quite common for him.

    lol, magical and mystical


    dhk: king of eisegetical wresting.
     
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  12. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Note these points.
    1. Paul was in the safety of the Captain and all of his Roman soldiers.
    2. Paul was a Roman citizen. It is illegal to put a Roman citizen in jail and the captain knew it.
    3. Paul spoke in the Hebrew tongue. That one action alone silenced the crowd.
    4. Paul takes every opportunity he has to preach the gospel and often uses his testimony to do so, as he did here.
    --You are attributing motive which is a lame excuse for your eisigesis.
    He was giving his testimony telling them how he was brought up. Being one of them and then going to those despised Gentiles certainly had its effect didn't it? Not only was he a Pharisee he was a member of the Sanhedrin. He was as high as one could go in their religion, and now a missionary to those wretched Gentiles. This was his testimony which angered the Jews.
    after Paul gave legal testimony he tells us what he preached here in verse 23, it was once again, the scriptures concerning the good news of the Kingdom and Jesus the King had come to earth.[/QUOTE]
    The above verses are where he gives his testimony--the why and wherefore he is in Jerusalem in the first place. He didn't deserve to be there. It wasn't his wish. He was taken there as a prisoner. Why? He gives his testimony as to how he got there and why. And yet his accusers were not there to provide any supposed evidence of his supposed guilt. This was his testimony.

    You have not addressed the issue at all.
     
  13. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Everything that is said above has absolutely no meaning in the CONTEXT of the passage:

    Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
    47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
    48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

    In the context Paul is applying the OT passage to himself. He is the light to the Gentiles, and later on is specifically called "The Apostle to the Gentiles."
     
  14. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Paul did not quote the entire book of Isaiah, just as he did not quote the entire passage. He referenced one verse and applied that verse to himself, for he did become "The Apostle to the Gentiles," as the Lord told him he would.
     
  15. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Your sarcastic repetitive insults are demeaning and deserving of an infraction. Perhaps another moderator will look into it. IF you are a Christians perhaps you should act like one.
     
  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    So.....you are saying that the Servant Song from Isaiah has no relevance to the nt saints?
    Paul himself is the light, not Christ????
    Paul is preaching himself and not Christ crucified?
    Isa 49 is really about Paul?
    Isa.49 has nothing to do with Gentiles coming to the light?
    When Isa 60 again speaks of gentiles coming to the light is that also Paul?
    Interesting......CautiousCautiousCautious
     
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  17. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    It has to be about Paul, because if he admitted it is about Christ, and it is, then dhk would have to admit to his error. So the Scriptures have to take a hit in order for dhk not to, so that dhk can be 'correct'. It is more important.
     
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  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    All Christians are lights to the world by way of application.
    The only reason we can be I s because the Servant of The Lord is The True Light. THE TRUE ISRAEL
    As we speak of Him we are the light of the world by application if we are speaking of THE TRUE LIGHT..THE SERVANT FROM ISA49
     
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  19. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    DHK has a point.

    If I were a moderator, these kinds of posts (examples of IT) wouldn't stand.

    Such posts add nothing worthy to the thread, nor to the discussion.

    Supposedly, threads on the "Bible and Theology" forum are to have posts concerning the Bible and Theology, not discussions of another poster's personality. In fact, such posts in which another poster is discussed rather than the proof of Scriptures is not a mere infraction, but (imo) worthy of being banned.

    Again, I am not a moderator, but if I were an administrator, certainly posts like that of IT would not be a part of the BB.

    Often in the urgency and heat of discussions, personality gathers more support than the truth of Scriptures. But there is a difference between clicking an icon to show the support or lack of support, in comparison to writing demeaning and defaming statements.

    For the record, BOTH DHK and ICON are making extremely good points, and BOTH have cause for their view. That they talk past each other does not mean that the statements cannot on some points be seen with actual agreement between them.

    Throughout the NT Paul gives personal testimony. That is true.
    Throughout the NT Paul uses an abundance of Scripture. That is what he was schooled to do.
    Throughout the NT, Paul uses both the personal testimony and OT scriptures to present.

    As a believer, one cannot divorce their testimony from the Scriptures anymore than Paul could deny his past as a persecutor and prosecutor of the church.
     
  20. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    'If I were...' Here's what is happening from you; you overlook what this moderator says and rush in to malign others in so doing. His lies and slander are well known but you side with the powers that be even though this happens. It's hypocritical on your part instead of taking a stand. Grow up "aged" man.
     
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