The Catholics are not lost

According to antichian.org:

SANCTIFICATION
SANCTIFICATION is being set apart for God. It involves us in the process of being cleansed and made holy by Christ in the Holy Spirit. We are called to be saints and to grow into the likeness of God. Having been given the gift of the Holy Spirit, we actively participate in sanctification. We cooperate with God, we work together with Him, that we may know Him, becoming by grace what He is by nature.


LINK

 

It's my opinion that the red above is where the disconnect is between what people perceive to be Catholic theology.

Catholics tend to view 'salvation' as the whole as expressed in the SBC statement of faith. We are not 'saved' until that sanctifying work is completed, and I would agree that we actively participate in this.

When a discussion occurs and one group is talking about salvation in terms of 'justification' and another views salvation as being the complete work that ends in sanctification and glorification, is it any wonder it appears we don't agree?

 

In the majority of cases (perhaps 90% or more) the word "sanctified" is used as a past tense, an act already done and completed, completed at the day of salvation.

1 Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

In the following verse it speaks of a process:


Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

Note that this process is not done in cooperation with God. It is an act that is done by the Holy Spirit. Sanctification is an process or act that is wholly done by God in the believer. Man takes no part in it. We do not cooperate with God in salvation or in any part of God's working in our lives.

2 Timothy 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

 

Regarding the red above, exactly how is it that we are God's "fellow workers" (2Co 6:1) if what you say in the above is true? Or how is that Paul says that "Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church." (Col 1:24)?

 

To do good works, to suffer for Christ, to pray and study the Word, to carry out the Great Commissioin, etc. is not to be sanctified. It is to obey God. As we obey God, God sanctifies us in the process. It is God that does the sanctifying.
The only sense in which we have a part of sanctification is when we realize where the word comes from. The word means "set apart." It is also related to "saint," "holy," all of which means "set apart one." One who is sanctified is set apart for the service of God. It does take a certain amount of discipline to do those things that I mentioned. But in doing so we not only set ourselves apart from the world, and set oursleves apart unto God. It is God Himself that sets us apart. We can do nothing without Him.

 

Totally agree with the red.

I do think your posts have contradicted themselves though. To say that "Man takes no part in it. We do not cooperate with God in salvation or in any part of God's working in our lives." and then to say that "As we obey God, God sanctifies us in the process. It does take a certain amount of discipline to do those things that I mentioned. But in doing so we not only set ourselves apart from the world, and set oursleves apart unto God."

So I guess the real question is, if we do not obey God, will He sanctify us anyway?

 

He always sanctifies us positionally at the time of salvation. That is why Paul could write to the Corinthians, as those that had been sanctified, even though they were the most carnal church mentioned in the NT.

After salvation sanctification is a process. We continue to be sanctified by God. I believe the degree that God sanctifies us is dependent upon the degree of our obedience to Him.

 

So how does that belief in red co-exist with one in which ""Man takes no part in it. We do not cooperate with God in salvation or in any part of God's working in our lives."

And what happens to the person who is 'saved' yet offers little obedience to God and are therefore sanctified only to a small degree?

 

When the thief on the cross died, he was sanctified at the time of salvation. But how many good works did he do after salvation?

 

Matt,

Linda64 said...

And you said...

Actually there is. Its an extremely reasonable and quite common view of the teaching in question. Not everyone holds to it...and of course there is no problem with having different views at all...but it is in fact a scripturally sound option regarding that passage of scripture.

You need to get out more! :thumbs:

God bless,

Mike

 

So what is your conclusion from all this? I could see several thoughts.

First, did the good thief experience heaven that day, or another state? I ask this because I think conventional teaching is that Jesus was not reunited with the Father until after his ascension, and it's always an interesting discussion as to where Jesus himself was while his body was in the tomb. Jesus' promise to the thief was that he would be with him (Jesus) not the Father (heaven).

The other question then is it's obvious not only from the thief but just from looking around that most people are not fully sancitifed or glorified prior to their death. It seems that some are closer than others, but certainly only God knows this. So does one conclude that completion of the sanctification process, or sanctification itself is not really a necessary part of salvation at all? That one can enter heaven without being completely sanctified?

And could you define what you mean by 'positionally' sanctified? Thanks.

 

What would make you think that he was not reunited with His Father until after His ascension? The very definition of "resurrection" infers that he rose from the dead and went to heaven.
He said "Today you shall be with me in Paradise. He did go down to Paradise, separate from heaven, and there led those that were there up to be forever with him in heaven (Eph.4:8-10).

There is no such thing as entire sanctification. I beleve that to be a false doctrine, that is, that we can be perfect and sinless while still on this earth. We all (believers in Christ) will reach the completion of that sanctification when we get to heaven.

The basic meaning of sanctification means "to set apart."
At the time of salvation God set apart each and every believer for himself, just as he set apart all the Israelites for himself. We are a holy nation unto God, sanctifed or set apart for the Mater's use.

 

Regarding the red, I've read a variety of opinions on this but don't have any of the sources at my fingertips.

I'm more interested in the blue. How to do you see this happening? Do you enter heaven, and then the process is completed? Is the process completed and then you enter heaven? One flash and it all happens together?

 

Its called GLORIFICATION (which is ultimate santification).

See http://www.disciplemakerministries....Outline of the Doctrine of Sanctification.pdf

Chapters 48-66 are all on the Doctrine of Sanctification

http://www.disciplemakerministries.org/Pages/RomansCommentary.htm

 

I will admit that I did not read all of that.

I did look through quite a bit of it. I would seem to me that sanctification is viewed as being in 'partership' with God, requires us to participate by yielding our will and become 'doers' not just hearers.

A couple of questions.

First, what happens to a believer that is 'saved' yet does not participate in or yield to sanctification by the Holy Spirit?

If glorification is not achieved in this lifetime, how is it achieved after death?

And does salvation occur at justification, or at glorification?

Okay, that was 3 questions.

 

I will try to summarize about 20,000 words.

A believer that is saved, but who does not yield to the Spirit of God will not grow spiritually and will not bear spiritual fruit to the glory of God. He will live his life in selfish carnality without the joy of salvation in his life.

Sanctification is three fold.
1. Positional sanctification "in Christ" (complete in Christ; Col. 2:10-15)
2. Practicle sanctification as the believer yields his will to the indwelling Spirit of God (Rom. 6:11-13)
3. Ultimate sanctification upon resurrection/translation which is glorification and God's final act in the believer's salvation (Rom. 8:17-30)

Glorification is not "achieved." It is a supernatural act of God and His consumate act of the believer's regeneration.

Salvation and regeneration are synchronous, but not synonomous. Salvation is an event. "The regeneration" (Matt. 19:28) begins with salvation and ends with glorification. Although, the final act of "the regeneration" (again genesis) is the creation of the New Heaven/Earth where God will dwell with His redeemed.

Justification is giving the believer the righteousness of Christ in the Person of the indwelling Spirit of God (II Peter 1:4). This is part of the gift of salvation.

You really need to invest the time in reading all the material I directed you to.

 

Well, I did print it all off -- does that count?:laugh:

It's on my stack of reading not too far from the top, so I will try to get to it and through it. :thumbs: