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Featured The central meme issue.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Barry Johnson, Oct 7, 2020.

  1. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    The central doctrine in Calvinsm is Total inability.

    The central point in Christianity is the death , burial and resurrection.

    Which one still exists without the doctrine of Total inability?

    Which one cannot exist without the doctrine of Total inability?

    thoughts ?
     
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  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    You are making the straw man argument. You inaccurately state the “central doctrine” of Calvinism and then knock it around.

    IMO, the “central doctrine” of the doctrines of grace is the sovereignty of God in the salvation of His people.

    That is perfectly consistent with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    peace to you
     
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  3. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Isnt that really bringing us back to the T ?
     
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  4. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    We come back to The 'T' on all kinds of subjects.

    "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
    for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them,
    because they are spiritually discerned." I Corinthians 2:14
     
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  5. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    No, that brings us back to the sovereignty of God in the salvation of His people; It is the key doctrine to understand the doctrines of grace.

    peace to you
     
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  6. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Even this verse is used through the lense of the T . When it's not talking about the Gospel or a man who is not regenerated cannot believe the Gospel. Its contrasting what the fleshy believer cannot understand as apposed to the wisdom paul can speak and be understood by the mature ( 1.cor 2v6 )
     
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  7. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying you know them, then, or not at all?
     
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  8. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what you mean ?
     
  9. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    O.K.
     
  10. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Everyone picks on Calvinism because it simply is not biblical

    If this were true then it would be the first doctrine of Calvinism bur it clearly isn't. Besides the word tulip would be misspelled. LOL

    Yet you miss the original meaning of His death burial and resurrection that the whole world might be saved.
    MB
     
  11. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    The doctrines of grace are clearly founded on understanding scripture in context. So we will disagree.

    I understand you want to define what I believe is the most important doctrine. I believe I am better suited to explain what I believe.

    Peace to you
     
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  12. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Proper English will get you the answer. By saying "them" you are implying a person. When you really mean the deep things of God.
    MB
     
  13. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Calvinist do not understand scripture in context because they take context apart to make it appear to agree with there tulip. Or they just flat out ignore what they don't agree with. For instance John 6:44 and John 12:32. Both written by the same man. Both about being drawn by God John 6:44 limits who is drawn and John 12:32 draws all men.
    Actually your not able to describe what you believe because what you believe is not explained in scripture.
    MB
     
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  14. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I know your arguments (wrapped in personal attacks) and disagree.

    There is no reason to continue a meaningless regurgitation of well known positions.

    peace to you
     
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  15. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    And we are back to Total Depravity, again.

    "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
    for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them,
    because they are spiritually discerned." I Corinthians 2:14
     
  16. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    The truth is you just haven't got a reply. I did not attack you personally I just told you the truth about what you believe.
    MB
     
  17. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Paul is speaking of this;
    1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. The milk of the word is understood by all men. As Usual Calvinist claim that verse 14 applies to the whole Word of God but when we look to see what is being talked about in the passage we find that it is only the deeper things of God and not the entirety of the Word. All can hear the gospel or it's completely useless and of no effect yet God's word is always effectual.
    MB
     
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  18. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
    for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know
    them,
    because they are spiritually discerned." I Corinthians 2:14


    them is 'the Things of the Spirit of God', as in "anything that exists in that Higher Realm of Reality, where God is Spirit, and it is a Spiritual Thing, as opposed to, 'a fleshly thing'".

    The Deep Things of God are the areas of insight into The Eternal Godhead, beyond the beginning areas of Entering The Spirit Realm.

    The first is the comparison between the Fleshly Realm and The Spiritual Realm.

    The later is a comparison between General Spirit Reality Knowledge and The More Private and Holy areas, of The Lord's Revealed Divine Wisdom and Whole Council of God.

    them doesn't mean The Deep Things of God any more than it does, "a person"(?),
    as you wrote:

    "Are you saying you know them, then, or not at all?"

    "Proper English will get you the answer. By saying "them" you are implying a person. When you really mean the deep things of God".

    I think I know who made this one up.

    The verse says what the verse says.

    Back again:

    "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
    for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them,
    because they are spiritually discerned." I Corinthians 2:14

    The natural man, who has no Spiritual Discernment,
    because they have not received The Spirit of God,

    Does Not, at all, receive the Things of The Spirit of God.


    While, on the other hand, "God hath revealed them unto us"
    (His Children who HAVE received The Holy Spirit,) by His Spirit:

    so The Saved could, CAN, & Do receive Spiritual Things,
    even to the extent of those Deep Things

    The Omniscient Holy Spirit SEARCHES out (to Tell us).



    "for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God".

    You won't agree. We'll be back here, again.


     
  19. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I will describe what I believe again. This time, I will write slower so you don’t miss it.

    The.... most.... important.... doctrine....to.... understand.....the..... doctrines of grace......is.....the.... sovereignty.... of.... God.

    The sovereignty of God is a major doctrine (perhaps the most prominent doctrine) taught throughout scripture.

    If you need more explanation of what the “sovereignty of God” means, then the conversation will be truly meaningless to you.

    peace to you
     
  20. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing about the Sovereignty of God in the Bible. The Bible says He is all mighty all powerful. It never says He is Sovereign.Enough said..
    MB
     
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