The Church of Antichrist and the Empire of Anti-Christendom?

I have been trying to interpret the visions of the beasts with ten horns in the bible for over a year since converting to Christianity. For some reason I feel drawn to figuring them out.

Now that I am reading the works of Menno Simons, I have decided to post my materials on Daniel 7, Revelation 13, and Revelation 17. My hope is, after posting these three biblical expositions, is to refine a short summation of what is going on in light of the perspective of the Mennonites and those like them such as the Baptists. My goal is a perspective that would hold up to the light the martyrs give on history.

I do this to create an understanding of the End Times that may contribute something new to those I agree with, historicists, and which will hold up against criticism.

However, I welcome a debate between myself and the various strands of thought here in order to promote what I view as correct doctrine, which is historicism.

Daniel 7:

This vision is a prelude to an angelic interpretation of it given to Daniel.

7 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel had a dream, and visions passed through his mind as he was lying in bed. He wrote down the substance of his dream.

2 Daniel said: “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me were the four winds of heaven churning up the great sea.

3 Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea.

4 “The first was like a lion, and it had the wings of an eagle. I watched until its wings were torn off and it was lifted from the ground so that it stood on two feet like a human being, and the mind of a human was given to it.

5 “And there before me was a second beast, which looked like a bear. It was raised up on one of its sides, and it had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. It was told, ‘Get up and eat your fill of flesh!’

6 “After that, I looked, and there before me was another beast, one that looked like a leopard. And on its back it had four wings like those of a bird. This beast had four heads, and it was given authority to rule.

7 “After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.

8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully.

9 “As I looked,

“thrones were set in place,

and the Ancient of Days took his seat.

His clothing was as white as snow;

the hair of his head was white like wool.

His throne was flaming with fire,

and its wheels were all ablaze.

10 A river of fire was flowing,

coming out from before him.

Thousands upon thousands attended him;

ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him.

The court was seated,

and the books were opened.

11 “Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. 12 (The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.)

13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority,glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

15 “I, Daniel, was troubled in spirit, and the visions that passed through my mind disturbed me. 16 I approached one of those standing there and asked him the meaning of all this.

Daniel approaches an angel for understanding.

“So he told me and gave me the interpretation of these things: 17 ‘The four great beasts are four kings that will rise from the earth.

A confirmation that these kings will rise at a later time than the present or the past. It must also be said that of course they establish a kingdom to reign after them. As Daniel is serving a Babylonian emperor at this time, as recorded in verse 1, the Babylonian Empire does not seem to be indicated.

18 But the holy people of the Most High will receive the kingdom and will possess it forever—yes, for ever and ever.’

Despite these four beasts or kingdoms, the holy people of God, who were first faithful Jews and after Jesus’ Cross Jews and Gentiles that believe in and obey Jesus Christ, will one day be given the kingdoms of the world, and thus the whole earth, forever.

19 “Then I wanted to know the meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others and most terrifying, with its iron teeth and bronze claws—the beast that crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. 20 I also wanted to know about the ten horns on its head and about the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell—the horn that looked more imposing than the others and that had eyes and a mouth that spoke boastfully.

21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the holy people and defeating them,

This kingdom will wage concerted war against the holy people of God and will defeat them.

22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the holy people of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom.

Jesus returns during the rule of this last kingdom’s empire.

23 “He gave me this explanation: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it.

The kingdom established by this fourth king would go on to not only conquer and subjugate the known world, as previous empires had, but the whole of planet earth.

24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom.

Ten kings and ten kingdoms will eventually come out of this first kingdom.

After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings.

A different king to the previous ten kings will arise. He will subdue three kings and their kingdoms out of the ten kingdoms that came out of the first kingdom.

25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws.

This last king will persecute the saints and he will move to change the Law. Set times may refer to the events God has decreed long in the past, which means this king may think himself the master of history more than the Lord.

The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.[b]

The meaning of time, times, and half a time in this context is debatable, but what is not debatable is that this king will persecute the saints all over the world and will succeed.

26 “‘But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever.

The court of the throne of the Lord and the throne of His Son Jesus the Christ will sit at the established time to judge the living and the dead, and this last king and his power will be destroyed.

27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High.

The saints will then inherit the earth and all its kingdoms.

His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.’

This final global Kingdom of the saints, which is Jesus’ Kingdom, will last forever, and all earthly rulers will worship and obey him.

After this interpretation of Daniel 7, I decided to go to Revelations 13 to understand what is going on given the beast in Revelation 13 also has ten horns. In addition, I have the knowledge that there is such a thing as a Church of Antichrist and an Anti-Christendom as shown by hundreds of years of Christian martyrs and persecuted saints and their supposedly Christian enemies.

 

Revelation 13:

13 The dragon[a] stood on the shore of the sea.

The dragon who is the devil as given in verse 12:9 of the Book of Revelation. The sea often represents Gentiles in the bible, as opposed to the earth which represents Jews. The Devil, who is cast down to earth at the beginning of the apostolic ministry (Luke), now goes to the sea or Gentiles.

And I saw a beast coming out of the sea.

A king and his kingdom that arises out of the Gentiles.

It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns,

The seven heads remain mysterious to me. The ten horns are ten kings and therefore also kingdoms, as horns represent kings in Daniel 7 and because kings are the ones to wear crowns.

and on each head a blasphemous name.

At the very least, this kingdom is a blasphemous one against the Lord.

2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard,

The beast's body is of a leopard, similar to one of the beasts in Daniel 7. Possibly Rome, which grew and shattered most of the nations in the known world. It should also be stated that a leopard is a fast and brutal beast.

but had feet like those of a bear

The beast’s four feet are like those of a bear, similar to one of the beasts in Daniel 7. Possibly Alexander the Great, who raced upon the face of the earth to acquire territory for his empire.

and a mouth like that of a lion.

Each of the beast's seven heads is that of a lion, and this makes it similar again to one of the beasts in Daniel 7. Possibly the Medo-Persian Empire and its dominion. A lion’s roar is to mark its territory, which means seven lion’s heads roaring are a testament to how jealous of its territory this kingdom is.

The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.

Satan gives this Gentile empire his power and authority.

3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed.

One of the Lion’s heads had been mortally wounded, but somehow it had been healed of this deadly wound.

The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.

The whole world rushes after this beast with wonder and awe, and they choose to follow it without even needing to be subjugated.

4 People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?”

People worship the devil, the source of the empire’s dominion, and they also worship this empire that refuses to die of even mortal wounds.

5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven.

The seven lion’s heads with blasphemous names utter proud words as well as blasphemies against the Lord. The seven lion’s heads will slander the Lord, heaven, and its inhabitants.

42 months may refer to 1260 days (42 months in the Jewish calendar) of persecution. It may possibly refer to 1260 years, or another exact but lengthy period of time, of persecution, or it may refer to a very long and indefinite time of persecution.

7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them.

This Gentile kingdom can and will slaughter and subjugate the saints.

And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.

This Gentile kingdom, or more properly empire, will subjugate and rule over all tribes, peoples, languages, and nations.

8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.[b]

Those whose name are blotted out of the book of Life (Revelation 3:5) of the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world (Jesus and his Cross), will worship this Gentile empire.

9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.

10 “If anyone is to go into captivity,

into captivity they will go.

The saints should be prepared to be imprisoned by this Gentile empire.

If anyone is to be killed[c] with the sword,

with the sword they will be killed.”[d]

The saints should be prepared to be murdered by this Gentile empire.

This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of God’s people.

The saints must have endurance and faithfulness in this persecution.

The Beast out of the Earth
11 Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth.

After the Gentile empire that spans the whole world arises, a second kingdom arises, but this time out of the Jews (the earth).

It had two horns like a lamb,

This kingdom will seem humble and docile like a lamb.

but it spoke like a dragon.

However, this kingdom will speak like the devil himself.

12 It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf,

The Gentile empire that goes onto rule the planet gives this other Jewish kingdom its authority.

and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.

This second kingdom causes the first Gentile empire to be worshiped, an empire whose fatal wound had been healed.

13 And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people.

The second, Jewish king and his second, Jewish kingdom have the ability to work counterfeit miracles that match those of the prophet Elijah.

14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth.

The second, Jewish king and his second, Jewish kingdom use their miraculous powers to bring homage to the Gentile empire, and these miracles deceive the whole world.

It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.

The second, Jewish king and his second, Jewish kingdom order people to set up an image in honor of the Gentile empire, who was mortally wounded, yet lived.

15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.

The second, Jewish king and his second, Jewish kingdom miraculously give life to this image in honor of the Gentile empire and this image murders anyone who does not worship it.

16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark,

The second, Jewish king and his second, Jewish kingdom force the whole world to take on a mark on their forehead or right hand in order just to purchase goods like food or drinks.

which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

The symbol for the mark is the number of the Gentile empire or its name.

18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.[e] That number is 666.

This is a hint to solve a riddle of what exactly is the symbol involved, but I do not have the wisdom to solve the riddle.


At this point, I compared this these beasts with the one in Daniel 7 and found amazing similarity. This made me believe that they were different aspects of one truth about the future. I was flummoxed though, I wanted more information on this Gentile empire, which I thought was the Roman Catholic Church and those like them. So I was preparing to pray for help from the Lord to understand things when I was immediately reminded of another beast with ten horns in Revelation 17. I must also mention that I later realized that I did not have proof I was seeing the Roman Catholic Church, even after this much bible exposition.

 

Revelation 17:

17 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits by many waters.

This prostitute rules over much territory near many seas.

2 With her the kings of the earth committed adultery,

Adultery here is used like in the Old Testament to refer to worship of anything that is not the Lord.

and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.”

The wine of her adulteries may be the prostitute’s bodily fluids she shares as she commits adultery repeatedly. It may also be something referred to soon that I will mention then.

3 Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness.

Similar to what happened to the apostle Philip (Acts 8:38-40), we would call it in modern english a form of teleportation.

I will be bluntly honest and say that I do not understand the meaning of the prostitute being in a wilderness at all.

There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.

The beast is scarlet like blood, which may denote how prolific its bloodshed is.

This kingdom is covered in blasphemies against the Lord, which at the very least denotes how much it hates the Living God.

Like the previous beast, or kingdom, with ten horns, it has seven heads.

4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls.

The prostitute is extremely wealthy compared to those like the poor and she loves luxury. This despite the many commands to use our wealth not on excessive luxury but on behalf of the poor, widow, and orphan.

She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.

5 The name written on her forehead was a mystery:

babylon the great

the mother of prostitutes

and of the abominations of the earth.

6 I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God’s holy people,the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.

The wine of her adulteries are little better than abominations to the Lord, such as sins deserving of death like homosexuality, and are like the physical remains one generates with prostitution. The woman is drunk on the blood of the martyrs. The blood of the martyrs may also be the wine of her adulteries given this context though. As previously mentioned the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated by this wine, meaning they joined the prostitute in adultery and possibly the murder of the saints and loved it.

The name on her forehead is a mystery but at least we can posit a few things from it.

1. This prostitute and the kingdom, or beast, she rides is like the Babylonian empire. However, it is far, far greater than that old empire ever was.

2. This prostitute is the ultimate prostitute against the Lord, and she gives birth to many other prostitutes against the Lord.

3. This prostitute gives birth to many abominations against the Lord.

When I saw her, I was greatly astonished. 7 Then the angel said to me: “Why are you astonished? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast she rides, which has the seven heads and ten horns.

Now, an angel interprets the vision, and at last we can try to make sense of the whole thing given Daniel 7 and Revelation 13.

8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction.

I will be honest and state that I do not have the wisdom to interpret this section of the bible. I can deduce that the kingdom the prostitute rides is somehow mirrored in history, at the time of the apostles it was not mirrored in the world, but still this kingdom would arise one day and eventually be destroyed.

The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.

Those whose names have been blotted out of the Book of Life referred to in (Revelation 3:5), will worship this kingdom that the prostitute rides. Again, I find the meaning of why they are astonished by this kingdom escapes me.

9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom.

This explanation is difficult and one must have a wise mind to understand it.

The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.

The prostitute is situated on a place with seven hills. The city of Rome is almost certainly what is being talked of as it was famous for being built on seven hills.

10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.

These kings are rulers, who at least control the city of Rome. At the time the prophecies of the Book of Revelation were given, five kings had come and gone, a sixth king was reigning, and a seventh king was to come but for only a short rule.

11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

At last, this beast is explained to us. The beast is an eighth king, after the seven, that will rule over Rome.

12 “The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.

The ten horns are ten future kings with ten kingdoms. For a moderate amount of time, which may be years, they will be given authority and kingdoms along with the eighth king in control of Rome to come.

13 They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast.

These ten kings have one purpose: to give power and authority to the eighth king in control of Rome.

14 They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”

These eleven kings, which creates a beast very reminiscent of the beast in Daniel 7, will wage concerted warfare on Jesus, who is the Lamb. Despite this open warfare, Jesus will triumph along with his saints.

15 Then the angel said to me, “The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages.

The prostitute rules over many peoples, crowds, nations, and languages.

16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute.

The eleven future kings, including the eighth king controlling Rome, will hate the prostitute.

They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked;

They will destroy the prostitute and strip her of her wealth.

they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.

Eating her flesh may refer to conquering the prostitute and slaughtering her inhabitants. The eleven kings will burn her seven hills.

17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled.

All of this happens because the Lord has appointed that the ten kings will agree to hand over their authority to the beast, or eighth king in control of Rome.

18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

Finally we understand who the prostitute is, she is almost certainly the city of Rome.

 

I'll be perfectly honest and record that the theological questions I have grow fewer quite quickly as I post things on this board. I now have the following burning questions I will go into as I feel able over time, but maybe not on this board, since I want to discuss these topics with people whose ideas of correct doctrine are closer to mine:

1. Was the founding of the U.S.A. the right thing to do, given it is a rebellion? Should we support rebellions as the U.S.A. against rulers instituted by the Father?

2. How valid is historical criticism?

3. What does the bible say on the subject of godly women? (I told the board I would post a thread on this, but never did and should given the work I have done)

4. What does the bible say to the topic of charity and wealth, especially to developed countries?

5. How should we separate from the world and false teachers given the many warnings in the New Testament not to mingle with them?

6. I am trying with this thread to understand if the persecution of the saints by various powers for 2000 years is predicted in some real way in the bible. At least I would be amazed if it wasn't. I am also trying to understand the theology of the Church of Antichrist and its Anti-Christendom spoken of by Menno Simons in this thread, specifically in reference to Christians who, among other unbiblical things, persecute and martyr their supposed spiritual family. However, the Church of Antichrist may not even be talked of in bible prophecy and may just be in the epistles, especially 1 John.

I am also surprised that a fairly straightforward exposition of the three ten horned beasts revealed things to me often not stated even in futurist circles. Such as the fact the false prophet and his kingdom appear to be Jewish (out of the earth as opposed to the sea).

I may have more areas I might nitpick, such as whether angels had sex with women to create the Nephilim in Genesis 6, but I am glad to be nearly finished with my burning theological questions.

 

Thank you for saying that. I went back to my last open thread in the Calvinism vs Arminianism board, and I am trying to work through my last issue on predestination and free will.

 

For those reading like Yeshua and others I know of, hopefully I can get some discussion in this thread, as I tackle this second issue to me beyond TULIP.

1. I mean for instance, why do we assume the Beast and False Prophet are just people and not kings with a kingdom together? This would be in line with Daniel 7 and Revelation 17. Where almost each part of the beast denoting power refers to a king and their kingdom.

2. Also, why is there barely any mention that the false prophet, who is a king with a kingdom, is obviously Jewish and likely rules over a Jewish state?

3. In addition, why is the centrality of the city of Rome, who is almost certainly the prostitute in Revelation, taken out of many interpretations of Revelation? Especially, given the city remained powerful over kings and emperors the world over for centuries after the fall of the Western Roman Empire. Other cities with seven hills, which I read are Babylon, Jerusalem, and Washington D.C., never had that kind of power for so long.

I mean, you have to include the Roman Catholic Church, and through it all churches remotely like it, as very possibly in the camp of the Antichrist spirit when you look at the wanton persecution of Christians by these people. Especially, given the dire warnings on 1 John that those that hate, and of course murder, their brothers and other spiritual family are false disciples (1 John 4:20). Even Protestants and Orthodox churches, who eventually derived from a tradition begun by Constantine's Rome, have to be watched very carefully. Their fruit may reveal them to be just as evil as the Roman Catholic Church, as many of these denominations slaughtered believers.

I guess I can make another post like this with all my questions form this study, which would be helpful and which I will do in another post.