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The Committe of the Revised Standard Version - What They Believed

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Martin Andrews, Mar 29, 2017.

  1. Martin Andrews

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    • "Edgar Goodspeed was on the Revised Standard committee. Goodspeed did not believe in the deity of Jesus Christ. He looked at Jesus as a social reformer who gave his life as a martyr for a 'cause…' Goodspeed called Genesis the product of an 'Oriental story teller at his best.' " (page 197-198)
    • "Julius Brewer, another reviser, stated, 'The dates and figures found in the first five books of the Bible turn out to be altogether unreliable.' " (page 199)
    • "Henry Cadbury, another member of the Revised committee, believed that Jesus Christ was a just man who was subject to story telling. 'He was given to overstatements, in his case, not a personal idiosyncrasy, but a characteristic of the Oriental world.' " (page 199)
    • "Walter Bowie was another revisor who believed that the Old Testament was legend instead of fact. He says in reference to Abraham, 'The story of Abraham comes down from ancient times; and how much of it is fact and how much of it is legend, no one can positively tell.' " (page 199)
    • "Clarence Craig was one of the revisers who denied the bodily resurrection of Christ. 'It is to be remembered there were no eye witnesses of the resurrection of Jesus. No canonical gospel presumed to describe Jesus emerging from the tomb. The mere fact that a tomb was found empty was capable of many explanations. The very last one that would be credible to a modern man would be the explanation of a physical resurrection of the body.' " (page 200)
    • "William Sperry shows his dislike for the gospel of John in the following statement. 'Some of these sayings, it is true, come from the Fourth Gospel (John), and we do not press that gospel for too great verbal accuracy in its record of the sayings of Jesus.' " (page 201)
    • "William Irwin believed that the Jewish prophets inflated the position of God in the Bible. 'The prophets were forced by the disasters that befell to do some hard, painful thinking. They were forced by the history of their own times to revise their messages again and again in order to keep up with the progress of the age. The Assyrians and the Babylonians forced them to revise their conception of Yahweh from time to time until they finally made Him God of the universe.' " (page 201)
    • "Fleming James doubted the miracle of the Red Sea crossing. 'What really happened at the Red Sea WE CAN NO LONGER KNOW; but scholars are pretty well agreed that the narrative goes back to some striking and pretentious event which impressed Moses and the people with the belief that Yahweh had intervened to save them. The same may be said of the account of the plagues.' Concerning Elijah's action in 2 Kings 1:10, he said, 'The narrative of calling down fire from heaven upon soldiers sent to arrest him is plainly legendary.' " (page 201-202)
    The quotes are taken from Rev. Gipp's book An Understandable History of the Bible
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    They were liberals who denied the infallibility/inerrancy of the Bible...
     
  3. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    The first edition of the book is available online at Chick.com
     
  4. anerlogios

    anerlogios Member
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    Isn't the ESV a revision of the RSV??
     
  5. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    The ESV was a very slight modification of the 1971 RSV.
     
  6. anerlogios

    anerlogios Member
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    That's what I thought...a very slight modification all while being a conservative translation.
     
  7. CertainSound

    CertainSound New Member
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    Martin, you are discourage people to believe the Bible like those guys did. They didn't try to influence people to not read a Bible. All of those things you say they didn't believe can be found in the ESV. Are you going to give equal time and point out the wrong beliefs of Erasmus and influence people to not believe Bibles translated from the TR?
     
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  8. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes, Erasmus, as with most early reformers, had some beliefs which I believe to be wrong. Look at his debate (via letters) with Martin Luther which resulted in Luther's "The Bondage of the Will."

    And there is no doubt the TR (whichever of the 31 different editions you choose) has some flaws, some more serious than others.

    Even the defenders of the TR over the text of Westcott and Hort, such as John William Burgon, believed the TR was in need of revision and suggested over 150 changes in just the book of Matthew.

    Any time anyone picks a translation (such as the KJV) and insists it is the "only inspired word of God in English" we already know this person is abysmally ignorant of bible inspiration, preservation, and translation.

    And "TR Only" is that abysmal ignorance one step removed. When we actually learn about the manuscript evidence and begin to see how the Greek New Testament was passed down through the intervening ages from 100 AD unto today, only then do we begin to see how we actually got our bibles.

    When we apply rational criteria to the manuscript evidence we deduce that the best criteria are:

    1. Antiquity - The age of the actual manuscript. This is not a conclusive text for a 14th century mss may be an accurate copy of a 3rd century mss, whereas a 6th century mss may be a poor copy of a 3rd century mss.

    2. Consent - The number of other witnesses. Normal practice is to accept the word of the majority of witnesses against the different readings of a few, especially when those few do not agree with each other.

    3. Variety - The universality of evidence. Manuscripts supporting a certain reading should come from a variety of geographical locations and be attested to by a variety of other mss, lectionaries, versions, and Patristics.

    4. Respectability - The reliability of the witness. Manuscripts which habitually contain errors are poor witnesses.

    5. Continuity - The unbroken tradition of a witness. Have the readings/mss in question been widely accepted by churches over a wide spectrum of time?

    6. Context - The evidence of the whole passage. The nature of the text surrounding a questioned reading can cast much light on the issue. If the reading is surrounded by obvious errors, it is much less likely to be a true reading.

    7. Reasonableness - The internal credibility of the text. If a text contains grammatical absurdities, or obvious geographical, scientific, or biblical errors, the reading is not likely to be reliable.

    8. Geography. The area of origin of the manuscript. Did the manuscript originate in a geographic location to which books of the New Testament were addressed? A geographic location where the autographs may have existed for as much as several hundred years to which early copies could be compared with and corrected from.

    When these rational criteria are critically applied to the manuscript evidence the result is a strong indication that what we now call the Byzantine Textform is most likely to represent the original autographs.

    But always remember, Versionism is not a matter of doctrine (nowhere does the bible teach any version or any manuscript tradition is the only correct version/manuscript). It is a matter of scholarship. And modern scholarship in the area of textual criticism is showing a observable shift toward the Byzantine textform as more and more textual scholars begin to question the former presuppositions which resulted in the Critical texts so popular today.
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    How would you view the 1894 TR by Schriver then?
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Good point, as those who hold to KJVO and the TR always quote Dean Burgeon, and he was neither TR KJV only!
     
  11. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    The New Testament in the Original Greek according to the Text followed in the Authorized Version, together with the Variations adopted in the Revised Version, 1881 was published 3 years after FHA Scrivener's death.

    It is an eclectic, critical text, that did not exist until Scrivener compiled it in the late 1880s.

    What most KJV/TR defenders often fail to realize is that Scrivener did not believe Matthew 16:2b–3 belonged in the bible.

    Did not think Luke 22:43-44, Christ's agony at Gethsemane, belonged in the bible.

    And that John 5:3.4, the troubling of the waters at Bethesda, and the healing of the first to jump in, did not belong in the bible.

    Nor did the Pericope Adulterae, John 7:53-8:11, belong in the bible.
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    How would you rate it as being a Greek text than? As think KJVO see it as the best one available now to use?
     
  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    It's a Greek text.
    They would be mistaken.
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    That is true!
     
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