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The CorporaState that Ate America

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by poncho, Aug 9, 2007.

  1. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    What would Thomas Jefferson say to those who evoke his words to install fascism in America today?
    “Why can't you see?​
    We just want to be free​
    To have our homes and families​
    And live our lives as we please.” ​
    Dana Rohrabacher​
    West Coast Libertarian Troubadour (1973)​
    (From David Friedman's, “The Machinery of Freedom.”)​

    Today is the 264th Anniversary of the birth of Thomas Jefferson. A lot has happened in America in those years but most importantly a lot is still happening that Americans fail to understand. We need to connect ALL the dots.

    In California a Federal Maritime Officer, Lt. Eric Shine, is fighting charges he is depressed; although they have argued he is employed within the proceedings they refuse to pay him or give him his benefits; that means he receives none of his due medical benefits or legal aid. Catch-22. Very useful to those suing him, which includes the US Government, Homeland Security, and the US Coast Guard. The powers that be pretty much ignored Shine and the charges he had leveled of toxic waste dumping, graft, and corruption until he began to write letters to Congress. They then slammed him with continuous litigation and decided he was depressed. If he wasn't he should be.

    Who 'they' is goes to the Dot question. If the US Government, Homeland Security, and the Coast Guard weren't enough Shine has gotten the attention of others who are perhaps even scarier. One of these is The Carlyle Group and their friends and associates. This included George W. Bush for a while; the senior Bush is still believed to be associated.

    The Carlyle Group, a corporation that handles investments for the well connected, including alumni of the Reagan, Bush Administrations and Saudi Princes, acquired General Dynamics, for which Eric Shine's father worked as Vice President of Engineering in 1992. Seeing what was happening to America 's military through the acquisition of General Dynamics in that year gave Eric the insight he needed to understand what was happening to the Merchant Marine. At the time Eric had no idea how 'Six Degrees of Separation' the world really is.




    Continue...



    See also, Iraq For Sale. To see how well the privatization of the U.S. government and military is going.
     
    #1 poncho, Aug 9, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2007
  2. KenH

    KenH Active Member

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    In President Bush's news conference today he mentioned cutting taxes for corporations. It's clear that the Republican Party no longer cares about the average American. Republicans are too busy taking care of their rich buddies in big corporations to care about us.
     
  3. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>

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    Corporations don't pay taxes. People pay taxes. Every dime that the government assesses a corporation comes out of your pocket. When corporate taxes go up, your cost of living goes up.
     
  4. KenH

    KenH Active Member

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    If all taxation was removed from corporations do you honestly believe that corporations would drastically reduce their prices to reflect this? I do not.
     
  5. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>

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    No, they wouldn't. But if they had never been taxed, they would likely have never raised prices to the place where they are. It was misguided from the beginning to tax corporations. It contributed to driving them offshore as well.

    Let's face it, corporations only have the money that you and I give to them. They have no money to pay taxes with unless you give it to them. So when they need more money to pay higher taxes, they go to the very same well that they did before.
     
  6. Cutter

    Cutter New Member

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    One of the reasons why I am in favor of the "Fair Tax" as proposed by my congressman, John Linder and talk show host, Neal Boortz in their Fair Tax book.
     
  7. KenH

    KenH Active Member

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    Prices are set by supply and demand, not tax rates.

    Even back during the Reagan years it was common wisdom that if given a choice between lowering personal taxes or corporate taxes that the wise correct course of action was to place priority on lowering personal taxes.
     
    #7 KenH, Aug 9, 2007
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2007
  8. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    I tend to agree with you, but if a corps taxes are raised, they must raise prices unless they want to operate in the red - opps, they cant do that, ony the goverment con

    If corp taxes were done away with, then once one business lowers prices, others would have to - as Ken said
     
  9. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>

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    Not entirely. Prices are also set by the cost of production, including wages, taxes, materials, infrastructure, etc. A company cannot sell a product for less than it costs to produce it. Taxes are a part of that cost.
     
  10. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1 Active Member

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    Tax cuts on corporations is one of the best ways to increase business, which is a guarantee for hiring more workers. Corporations, invest these cuts in new business infrastructure, and branch projects, that increases revenue for shareholders, and improves their position in the market. That nearly always bodes well for the workers.
     
    #10 hillclimber1, Aug 10, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2007
  11. Petra-O IX

    Petra-O IX New Member

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    Can you name the corporations that do this? This generic statement has circulated around for years and yet their have never been any examples of any American corporation willing to invest in themselves. Give em' a tax break and they will use the extra money for themselves while investing in outsourcing jobs to other countries. Lee Iacocca and others like him don't exist any more.
     
  12. KenH

    KenH Active Member

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    That is a bunch of snake oil.

    Your sentence is imcomplete. It should read "That nearly always bodes well for the workers in foreign countries".
     
    #12 KenH, Aug 10, 2007
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2007
  13. KenH

    KenH Active Member

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    1) Taxes are not a cost of production. Taxes are paid on profits. A lower profit means less taxes paid. A higher profit means more taxes paid.

    2) Not true. Oil companies sell gasoline at a loss at the pump more often than I care to think about.
     
  14. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1 Active Member

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    You are wrong. any company that is going to follow profits overseas, isn't waiting for a tax break to do so. My assertion is that every American company invests in themselves. That's what companies do. Many diversify by investing in business related to theirs. See GM diversified in Fisher, Delco, On Star, and hundreds of other related businesses. I don't understand your post. Am I missing something?
     
  15. Petra-O IX

    Petra-O IX New Member

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    YES...............
     
  16. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1 Active Member

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    Care to elaborate?
     
  17. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    What does all this have to do with the power the corporations have over governments and our very lives?
     
  18. KenH

    KenH Active Member

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    "Conservatives" don't want to talk about that, poncho. It would expose their Big Government agenda which is just as destructive to liberty in these United States as the liberals' Nanny State.
     
  19. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    From what I've been reading here on BB most conservatives agree with us about the dangers of big government and a nanny state. What I'm seeing is what they don't want to talk about is how corporatism with it's "public private partnerships" are not only taking over the United States but the world.

    It's global fascism. That's what people don't want to talk about. They'll all tell ya that fascism is bad and all but they won't admit it's happening in their own backyard right in front of their eyes and they're making excuses for not speaking out against it or denying it exsists altogether. They're to busy hiding in the false left vs right paradigm, because it's comfortable there and so they simply refuse to take notice that it's all a contolled debate right from the start. Because, that's what they know, it's familiar to them and they can console themselves by thinking they've chosen a side, team, tribe or whatever.

    In any case, the state is in the hands of very powerful transnationals with no loyalty to anyone or anything but they're own greed these days and they set the rules of what can and cannot be discussed in the media and society. That's what they don't want to talk about for whatever "reason" Ken. At least that's the way I see it.
     
    #19 poncho, Aug 11, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2007
  20. Petra-O IX

    Petra-O IX New Member

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    First of all GM is not much of a sucess story . In the 70's they wanted to eliminate foreign competition by making cars cheaper but this only moved the consumer towards the forein car market because GM was producing cheap quality. Even though foreign imports were being taxed higher as a means to level out the playing field GM did not seize the oppurtunity to produce as good a quality car as those coming from Toyota or Honda.The great American car maker is doing itself in by poor management stratagies.
    Once was a time when a label on any American product "Made in the U.S.A." meant something but not anymore, with American companies going after the cheap labor as a means to improve their bottom line they just as well throw in the towel and surrender. Greed is a great motivator but it often causes the demise of once great companies that are not willing to pursue long term stratagies in which all can share benifits from a properly motivated labor force.
    So now a theory surfaces that if big business is given tax cuts that they will use the savings to invest in themselves to improve business. That is only a theory , Hillclimber, put it to the the test for a year maybe two and big business will fail at that as well they have a history of doing that from squandering past oppurtunities.
     
    #20 Petra-O IX, Aug 11, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2007
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