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The Covenant of Redemption

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Iconoclast, Jun 30, 2020.

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  1. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    The clearest place to find this is in Ephesians 1. In verses 3-14, we see the parts played by each Person of the Trinity in the salvation of mankind. The text is divided into three parts by the phrase, ‘To the praise of His glory.’ There is glory here for Father, Son and Spirit. First, the Father’s part in salvation is displayed in verses 3-6. Then the part of the Son in found in vs, 7-12, and that of the Holy Spirit in vs. 13-14.

    References to the Covenant of Grace can be found in various parts of the Bible if one is prepared to look for them as the following examples will show:-

    Luke 22:22. “And truly the Son of Man goes as it has been determined……” Determined where and by whom if not in the Covenant of Grace?

    John 6:38-39. “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.” Christ has been given a people and the task by the Father which He is determined to fulfill. What can this refer to if not the Covenant of Grace?

    John 10:16. “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.” Not, “I will bring,” but, “I must bring.” Our Lord had been given a commission to fulfill.

    John 10:17-18. “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.” Where did Christ receive this command, the doing of which merited so well the Father’s love? In the Covenant of Grace, of course.

    Phil 2:6-8. ‘Who, being in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be held onto, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.’ In the Covenant of Grace, our Lord gave up temporarily that equality with the Father that had existed from all eternity, and became the willing servant of Exodus 21:5-6 and Psalm 40:6-8 in order to rescue those who had been given to Him (John 17:2, 6 ).

    Heb 2:13. ‘Here am I and the children whom God has given to Me.’ Given by the Father to the Son in the Covenant of Grace to be redeemed from sin and brought to heaven.

    In Isaiah 42:6, Christ is described as the Covenant itself. He is, in His own Person and work, the very substance of it. In Malachi 3:1, He is, ‘The Messenger of the Covenant’ because He came to proclaim it and make it known. In Hebrews 7:22, He is, ‘The Surety of a better covenant.’ Christ came as the representative of fallen Man, being engaged to fulfill the obligations incurred under the Covenant of Works. In Heb 9:15, He is, ‘The Mediator of the New Covenant’ since He has brought about legal satisfaction between God and man so that covenantal blessings are now imparted to those who had previously forfeited them, and He now stands between the two parties, advocating the cause of man to God (1John 2:1 ) and speaking a word of the comfort of God to the weary man (Isaiah 50:4 ).

    Some of this from A.W. Pink's The Divine Covenants.
     
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  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I have always known it by God's designation in Scripture...The New Covenant. Nowhere do I see God calling something a "Covenant of Grace." Are we simply going to rename covenants we see in scripture?
    My concern is not in the truth that God saves by grace. My concern is in labeling a "Covenant of Grace" when there is no specific label in Scripture.
     
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  3. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    With all due respect, you are prooftexting to create a covenant where God has not obviously created one.
    Why would God feel obligated to make a covenant with man that He would extend unmerited favor to man? Does he need to make such a covenant with man or is it His Sovereign right to save as He so chooses?
    God tells us of His means of salvation "by grace through faith" but I am not seeing a covenant God is making with man surrounding grace. Your verses have not convinced me regarding the accuracy of your postulation.
     
  4. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I have said before, IMHO

    In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; Gal 1:2

    That promise was made for the sinless Son of God to be born of a virgin woman.

    Hebrews 1:2 Hebrews 5:5 Col 1:18, then unto the sons PL of God Romans 8:17 Titus 3:7 Romans 8:29 IMHO The Son born of woman who gave his life is the inheritor via resurrection out of death, incorruptible. Hebrews 1:4,5 Rom 1:4 & Romans 8:29

    However IMHO something is missing in the whole thread. Before the foundation of the world what was the primary purpose for the covenants? It is first seen in Genesis 3:15 IMHO salvation, redemption isn't the primary purpose but the means. unto the purpose.

    Consider:
    Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
    1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
    Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
    Romans 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly (that is, Quickly, by the redemption of the body). The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

    IMHO the devil, Satan, needed to be destroyed before the foundation of the world.
     
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  5. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Maybe my favorite verse.

    Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. Acts 15:18
     
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  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    In Psalm 25:14, what Covenant is that?

    What is the essence of the Covenant:
    I will be to you a God, you will be to me a people.
    On What basis?....works or grace?
    You have already indicated it is grace.
    God alone establishes His Covenant with His sheep.
    Abram was put to sleep when God alone passed through the divided animal .Abram did not do anything, The work was God's.
    Early on in Genesis God speaks of it this way:
    I will establish MeeY COVENANT with you.
    It was graced to man, not merited.
    Take the time to work through Pink's writing on it.
     
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Hello Percho,
    You see it clearly,thanks for this solid post.
    This way of viewing the bible gives it a proper framework showing the plan from start to finish.
     
    #27 Iconoclast, Jul 1, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
  8. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    This system should have never gotten off the ground because there is no 'eternal decree '
     
  9. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Verse 10 tells us which covenant. In this case, David is referring to the Mosaic Covenant and the law.
    Psalm 25:10-14
    All the paths of the Lord are steadfast love and faithfulness, for those who keep his covenant and his testimonies. For your name’s sake, O Lord, pardon my guilt, for it is great. Who is the man who fears the Lord? Him will he instruct in the way that he should choose. His soul shall abide in well-being, and his offspring shall inherit the land. The friendship of the Lord is for those who fear him, and he makes known to them his covenant.

    Again, where does God establish a Covenant of Grace with humans? Where do we see him making this promise to man and then sealing it in blood?

    You are free to believe what you will, but such a covenant needs to be very easily seen in God making this covenant with man. I am not trying to be contentious. I am being a Berean with you on this subject.
     
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  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Deep insight...you have your own narrative.
    We would not want truth to divert you from your imagination.
     
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Austin,
    I have used this in the past,

    What sport am I describing if I tell you I saw a home run, 21 strikeouts, and a batter got hit with a pitch and charged the pitchers mound?
     
  12. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    T-ball

    Iconoclast, we are talking about Covenants that God has made with man.
    Do you wish to rename the New Covenant and call it "Covenant of Grace?"
    Did I not identify the Covenant that David is referring to in the Psalm you quoted?
     
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  13. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    It didn't say it was the Mosaic Covenant in the psalm.
    So why did you call it the Mosaic Covenant?

    By the way it couldn't be t-ball because there was no picture throwing pitches and t-ball so the batter wouldn't have charged the mound because he got hit with a pitch they headed off the tee right so it wouldn't be t-ball so even that part of your answer was not correct
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    There are Covenants between God and Man, one of works. and one of grace!
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The new One IS the Covenant of Grace!
     
  16. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    God made the covenant with Moses at Mt Sinai.
    Where do we find God meeting with man and establishing a Covenant of Grace. The easy way to convince me is to show that interaction with man in scripture. We see the interaction with Adam, with Noah, with Abram, with Moses, with David and with Jeremiah and Ezekiel. With them covenants are made. With whom did God make the covenant of grace?
     
  17. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Have you been to my kids T-ball games? LOL. I'm just messing with you.
     
  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for the good links and solid input
     
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  19. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    God has saved by grace through faith from the beginning, far before the New Covenant was established. Why would we change the New Covenant to rename it "Covenant of Grace?"
     
  20. Mikey

    Mikey Active Member

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    who was the New Covenant made with?
     
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