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Featured The Crux

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Jun 21, 2012.

  1. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    In fact, the oldest church ruins ALL have altars. Not very Baptistic!

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3164437,00.html

    "In the center of the building the ruins of an altar were found. Archeologists noted that the ruins date from a period that preceded the crucifix as the official ecclesiastical emblem, which explains why fish-shaped decorations were found on most of the mosaic."
     
    #41 Walter, Jun 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2012
  2. Agnus_Dei

    Agnus_Dei New Member

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    In one small sense you are right…there was no terms as “Orthodox Church” or “Roman Catholic Church” in early Church history…the terms referenced above originated out of the Great Schism in 1054 to differentiate between the “Western” Church and the “Eastern” Church…
    Oh I suspect you’d have an extremely difficult time proving that Yeshua1…I was a raised as a former fundamental Baptist, which was/is a landmark Baptist Church…my former pastor and I had many, many long discussions regarding Church history as it pertained to the Baptist Church…and the best he could do was the “Trail of Blood” booklet…which to me posed more questions than could be answered…
     
  3. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Rome has BLOOD on her hands as her greatest historical badge proving she is that Great Harlot in Revelation 17:5-6. Here is a "church of God" from its very origin practiced persecuting and killing dissenting Christians as predicted in Rev. 17:5 and John 16:1-4.
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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  5. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    This the OP and "we" have strayed from it. Let us get back on track. This thread is not about traditions or denominational history but about justifying versus sanctifying faith as defined in this OP.
     
  6. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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  7. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    #47 The Biblicist, Jun 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2012
  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    It's as I said here , "the RCC has at least acknowledged and attempted to apologize and ask forgiveness for it's past sins."

    But that doesn't seem to be of any account to you.
     
  9. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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  10. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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  11. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Apologies do no change the past, or change an apostate denomination into a Biblical denomination. Both the Western and Eastern Catholic denominations are apostate in doctrine and practice from the New Testament basics both in soteriology and ecclesiology. My OP presents the crux of the problem between Catholicism and Biblical Christianity.
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    #52 Yeshua1, Jun 23, 2012
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  13. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Again, the OP demonstrates that both the Eastern and Western Catholic denominations are apostate denominations in connection with the very heart of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

    They were and still are apostates and will continue to be apostates as the Great Harlot hates Jesus Christ and prove it by replacing him by the Pope, by the church, by the sacraments, by good works and thus trample under their unholy feet the very gospel of Jesus Christ.
     
  14. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Again, Rome confuses regeneration with justification as the source of "good works" (Eph. 2:10). They also fail to recognize that where there is justificaiton by faith without works, there is in addition regeneration "unto good works" and therefore "good works" are always in accompaniment with Jusitification even though they are not the cause of justification or regeneration but only the consequences of regeneration.
     
  15. Fred's Wife

    Fred's Wife Member

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    Would you call that "regeneration unto good works" sanctification? Don't Catholics also confuse "justification by faith" with "sanctification" or "regeneration unto good works"?
     
  16. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Progressive sanctification originates in regeneration because regeneration is the impartation of "true holiness and righteousness" (Col. 3:10; Eph. 4:24) by a creative act of God (Eph. 2:10) that provides spiritual life and inward cleansing of the human spirit (Tit. 3:5). Hence, we are "his workmanship" which is a CREATIVE work - "created in Christ Jesus" that provides the inward source of all "good works." The indwelling Spirit in connection with the inward new man produce "good works" in and through the life of the believer which are always incomplete until glorification.

    In contrast but contemporary with regeneration is justification by faith without works. Justification is the IMPUTATION of righteousness revealed in the gospel concerning the Person and work of Jesus Christ and the NON-IMPUTATION or REMISSION of our sins provided by the death of Christ that obtains a right LEGAL POSITION before God. Hence, justification must be without our participant works as it is the personal works of Christ that have already satisfied the full demands of God against us which is received by faith and which is the basis upon which faith rests solely and only.

    The kicker, is that there is no such thing as a justified but unregenerated person. The justification is solely by the works of Christ completely without our participant works while regeneration is never without "good works" as its product. Hence, where there is no good works there is no justification without works and vice versa.

    However, that does not confuse regeneration with justification as one is obtained without works while the other is inseparable from "good works" and yet both are simletaneously existent in the believer.

    Rome denies their distinction and confuses them together in sacramental salvation.
     
  17. Fred's Wife

    Fred's Wife Member

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    IOW, justification by faith is our LEGAL POSITION before God based solely on Christ's finished work on the cross of Calvary. Then because we are justified by faith, we are regenerated unto good works (Eph. 2:10; Titus 3:5).

    Isn't a sacrament a "work" that imparts some type of grace to the one doing it? Basically sacramental salvation is "works salvation"...correct?
     
  18. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Correct! It is the repudiation that Christ satisfied all of God's demands against sin by his own personal obedience but rather we must complete them by our own participation with Christ in our own body by our own obedience. Thus an outright objection that Christ "finished" it Himself "for us."

    A sacrament is an external means that conveys actual grace. Hence, Rome believes that the actual grace of justification and rengeration are conveyed in the act of water baptism.

    However, baptism is a "good work" (not an bad work) because it is something that both you and others participate in.

    In contrast, Justification by faith is something no fallen human being can participate in because:

    1. The satisfaction required - sinless perfection
    2. Christ satisified it in his own body in his own life and on the cross without our participation but for us.
    3. Faith simply embraces His obedience as the complete satisfaction for us and rests its hope entirely upon his finished work in our behalf.

    Baptism as a "good work" is the product of regeneration rather than the cause of regeneration as we are "created" in Chrsit Jesus "UNTO good works."

    In context the description "for we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus" (v. 10) is a further expanded explanation of the previous phrase "for by grace are ye saved through faith" (v. 8) which is descriptive of a previous phrase "You hath he quickened" (v. 5).

    Hence, baptism is the consequence of progressive sanctification or the outworking of spiritual life created in the believer rather than the sacramental means to obtain spiritual life/regeneration or justification.
     
  19. Fred's Wife

    Fred's Wife Member

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    Great post Bro Biblicist! :thumbs:

    Water (believer's) baptism is a public testimony of faith in Christ and a picture of the gospel-the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ (Acts 8:34-38; 16:30-34; 2:37-38). It identifies one with Christ and depicts salvation-dying with Christ and being raised to eternal life with Him (Romans 6:3-6).

    Water (believer's) baptism is an ordinance, as is the Lord's Supper...not sacraments.
     
    #59 Fred's Wife, Jun 23, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2012
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    because the Grace that saved and regenerated/justified us before God already accomplished that deed, the water just makes an external statement on the inward fact/condition!
     
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