Featured The Days Are Coming When There Will Be A New Covenant With Israel & Judah

There is not one word of Scripture to support that nonsense. To say that more are saved through the preaching of 144,000 fictious preachers than the 2000 plus years since the death of our Savior on the Cross is an insult to the LORD GOD. If I am wrong then prove it!

Furthermore, your response answers nothing. I asked:

 

The Apostle Paul was saved in the same way as everyone who is ever saved, by the Grace of God through the Work of the Holy Spirit!

If I am not mistaken you dispensationalist types also insist that the Holy Spirit is taken out of the world at the so-called Rapture.

 

Ive said no such thing. You are not following along too well.

 

...yet nobody could be saved in this manner during the great tribulation. Talk about double standard.

 

And yet another non sequitur. Who said anything about more people being saved during the great tribulation than throughout all history combined?

 

I consider what's been written just fine. I just don't consider your understanding of it.

 

Unfortunately, anti-dispensationalists have a habit of that. I'm becoming convinced they actually know what the theology teaches, they deliberately pretend they don't, and make misstatements about it. I've got theories as to why they do that, but I'll not post them here. Most of 'em I agree with on everything else. They have a burr under their saddles about dispensationalism. Oh well ...

 

That is the point. How are people saved during the Grrreat Tribulation?

 

Apparently you are not following along too well!

sur·pass [ser-pas, -pahs]
verb (used with object)
1. to go beyond in amount, extent, or degree; be greater than; exceed.

 

The burr under my saddle is the dispensational doctrine of the "parenthesis" church and I posted on another thread prominent dispensational theologians who proclaimed that error. Then there is the truth that dispensationalists cannot present a single verse of Scripture that teaches a "snatching" away of the Church prior to some great 7-year tribulation. Beyond that is the statements you made above implying that those of us who accept the Biblical teaching of the general resurrection and judgment are deliberately lying about dispensationalism. You are in fine company with "beameup"!

 

Following is your statement. I take the liberty of emphasizing your asinine claim!

You are unreal beameup. The Apostle Peter is writing to the "true believers", the Church, which rules out the Hebrews {Jews}.

2 Peter 1:1. Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Your twisting of Scripture is unsurpassed!

 

There is only one Gospel and to claim otherwise is absolutely heretical just as the Apostle Paul stated. I have heard your heretical drivel before and that is exactly what it is, heretical drivel. Your hyper dispensationalism puts you in the same class as some of the cults! If you were the scholar you think you are you would know that Peter preached the Gospel to Gentiles before Paul. Philip did also!

 

Acts 28:30, 31
30. And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
31. Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

I guss I should point out that Paul preached the same Gospel as Jesus Christ!

 

Hi all. :wavey:

I haven't posted much here in months, but this thread caught my attention.

I don't understand how this is even an issue.

Even when I was a dispy I agreed that Jesus was already the mediator of the New Covenant. Strange. Is this some sort of hyper-dispensational view?

The writer of Hebrews (Paul or not is irrelevant) clearly says the New Covenant was brought in by Jesus 2000 years ago now. Hebrews 8 is very clear:

Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer. Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, "SEE," He says, "THAT YOU MAKE all things ACCORDING TO THE PATTERN WHICH WAS SHOWN YOU ON THE MOUNTAIN." But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises. - Heb 8:1-6 NASB

Jesus, as our great high priest and also our sacrifice, has once for all time fulfilled the shadow of the Mosaic Law. Through his complete work he has now obtained a "more excellent ministry" which immediately correlates with his mediation of "a better covenant," based on or "enacted on better promises." The whole point here is that Jesus has complete the OT Law and has secured better everything for his people in his life death and resurrection, including a better, and new, covenant. Also notice this was already a reality in the writers day, "now He has obtained... He is also the mediator... has been enacted." All this was already in place in the writers day, he is not looking forward to this being completed millennia from when he wrote.

For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. For finding fault with them, He says,

Now the distinction really becomes plain. Jesus' covenant (here, the "second" covenant) has supplanted the "first" covenant, which in this context is clearly the Mosaic Covenant. Jesus is better than Moses, and the covenant through Jesus is better than the covenant through Moses. The first covenant, with Moses, was not faultless (implying that the second covenant with Jesus is faultless!). It had problems. It couldn't secure what it pointed towards, i.e. complete forgiveness of sins.

"BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD,
WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT
WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH;
NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS
ON THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND
TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT;
FOR THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT,
AND I DID NOT CARE FOR THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
"FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS,
AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS.
AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD,
AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
"AND THEY SHALL NOT TEACH EVERYONE HIS FELLOW CITIZEN,
AND EVERYONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,'
FOR ALL WILL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
"FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES,
AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS NO MORE." - Heb 8:7-12 NASB

The writer quotes Jeremiah 31:31-34 in its entirety, obviously intending for the reader to draw the conclusion that the second covenant made by Jesus is in fact the prophesied New Covenant. I know some get hung up on the terms "Israel" and "Judah," but the fact is the inspired writer of scripture here intended for us to see that this second covenant made through Jesus, is the promised New Covenant. If your interpretation of the Old Testament differs from that of inspired writers, then perhaps you should reexamine how you interpret the Old Testament. We must agree with the New Testament writers, and interpret the Old how they did. The writer of Hebrews couldn't be clearer in his interpretation of Jeremiah 31.

When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. - Heb 8:13 NASB

The New Covenant has been made according to the writer, and because of this the first, the Mosaic Covenant, has become obsolete, is growing old, and ready to disappear. And not ready to disappear 2,000 or 3,000 years later. Ready to disappear then, when the text was written. The Old has been done away with and the New Covenant has come in.

I personally think that this implies the whole Old Covenant system was ready to be done away with, which was completed in 70AD with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. YMMV

Also, Hebrews 9 puts the final nail in the coffin:

For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. - Heb 9:13-15 NASB

Christ has offered himself to God as a sacrifice for sin. "For this reason he is the mediator of a new covenant," bringing in the redemption pictured in the Old Covenant.

:jesus:

 

:thumbsup: ....and doing a good job of it, keep it up brother!

Congrats on leaving the fog, I did too some 30+ years ago. And yes, I'm certain the OP would fall within the 'hyper' category.

Amen brother!

"The new is in the old concealed, the old is in the new revealed".

When that truth is adhered to Dispensationalism fades away like as with the old covenant.

 

Thanks RLBosley for adding some light to the heat. One purpose of the Book of Hebrews is to show the superiority of the New Covenant over the Old Covenant. The Thompson Chain Reference Bible demonstrates this by the following summary:

• Better Revelation, Hebrews 1:1-4
  Better Hope, Hebrews 7:19
  Better Priesthood, Hebrews 7:20-28
  Better Covenant, Hebrews 8:6
  Better Promises, Hebrews 8:6
  Better Sacrifices, Hebrews 9:23
  Better Possessions, Hebrews 10:34
  Better Country, Hebrews 11:16
  Better Resurrection, Hebrews 11:35

Actually the superiority of the New Covenant, instituted by Jesus Christ, over the Mosaic Covenant is the emphasis of the whole of the New Testament Revelation. Yet in the face of this truth the dispensationalist would have us believe that the old system is to be reinstituted even to the resumption of animal sacrifice in a rebuilt temple. What Darby and Scofield sold as "dispensational truth" is in reality not only false doctrine but an exceedingly tragic doctrine.