The Devil’s Delight: Deceiving The Church

RevMitchell,

If this is the case you are making, then let me "stoke the fire." My belief is that there is a "agent" today who puts himself in place of the Holy Spirit before 1 billion "Christians." He is the Pope. He alone claims to understand and interpret the Bible correctly and be inerrant in doing so (a task only the Spirit can do).

When the church is gone, he will put himself forward (not necessarily this particular Pope, mind you) as the "Christ" -- he is THE AC. And at midtrib, he will do as Dan 11:36and 2Thes 2:4 say -- declare himself to be God.

skypair

 

Your avatar should be disavowed.

 

Hey SP, that's mighty Reformed of ya...:laugh: couldn't help myself...

 

Do you lovies Obama? :laugh: perhaps we should debate his avatar in the political forum. hahahaha

 

RB,

That will be a good debate. :thumbs:

 

A famous pastor once asked...

"Which clock is more deceptive -- one that is 5 minutes slow or one that is 5 hours slow?" The 5 minute one. It is so close to the right time that you might never notice until it makes you late.

Same thing you are talking about here. In fact, Bill Hybels of "seeker friendly" fame just apologized for not teaching converts that they must "feed" themselves and grow.

Jack Van Impe reported it and reviled their practice of preaching "Sermonettes that produce Christianettes."

I compare it to treating Christians and "seekers" like teenagers all over again. Lots of activities, socializing, entertainment, etc. with no particular goal in mind.

skypair

 

I am not catholic but have been looking into these matters and you are mistaken. A common mistake. The Pope claims not to teach anything contradictory to the deposit of faith or scriptures and the magisterium of the church. Any papal decrees are done in conjunction with the magesterium, and the college of bishops. He does not speak alone. The pope does not say that everything he says is inerreant. And he doesn't claim he is the only one who can interpret scripture properly but that the scriptures can only be fully understood in the tradition of the Catholic Church. Now if you said that the Catholic Church was that spirit that would be another issue.

 

Well, you make a good point. It is the CHURCH magesterium that "interprets" the Spirit. However, when the work of the coucils is done, it is still the Pope (who likely "stacked the deck" toward his own opinion) that issues the "ex cathedra" decree, wouldn't you agree?

skypair

 

The RCC is the 5 hours off church, obvious to most born again folks.

But I was already looking for help before this thread was posted concerning just how much the devil is running the church.

I did a quick search just typing in "pagan practices in christian churches" and got lots of ads for a book (George Barna is one of the authors) that apparently contends the traditional church is paganized and the emergent church is not.

HMMM--I spent many years in a part of the country with a large body of people that practices a "native" or pagan religion.

I gotta admit, seeker friendly contemporary services just don't appear all that different from that native worship practice. Especially when the arms go up, the eyes close, and the swaying or dancing to the music in a seeming trance starts. It is all about the emotion or experience. Just like on the rez.

I sometimes wonder if our churches today are not accessing the same spirits those pagan folks are.

I wonder if we can discern between the Holy Spirit and a deceiving spirit.

One friend made some good comments, I think. He pointed out that the rallying cry for the "new church" is "this isn't the 1950's and why act like that was a good time anyway?" Then he pointed out some thoughts I had never considered.

Here in the US, at least, God really moved during the 1950's. Yes, there was racism and sexism and classism and a whole lot of negative junk. But there was also a great time of revival, with mass evangelism and personal evangelism and church growth and church plants. The younger people were reached. It was a tough time to reach people, with the modern scientific (or so called in some cases like psychology) mindset coming to the fore, with people reeling from the depression and world war and korean war, and with materialism rampant.

Yet during this time of flagrant sin and rebellion, God did a mighty work and the culture was strongly affected.

Now we are back in a time of flagrant sin and rebellion. And what is the battle cry of the church? LET US NOT DO WHAT WE DID BACK THEN AS IT WILL NOT WORK.

Oh really?

Or would it work perfectly fine and Satan knows it?

I gotta admit, this sent me back to the Word. And it convicted me enough to commit to changing what I wear to church (and the rest of the time), to change what music I will play in church services on the rare occasions I do so(someone else can play the new stuff if the church wants it badly enough), to change how I behave during the congregational singing (no more acting like a pagan for me), and to even go out and get a more accurate even if tougher to read translation of the Bible. (Nope, I am not KJV only either.)

It convicted me to commit to actively evangelizing, as opposed to participating in church growth. It convicted me that this old lady needs to make sure the world can see she is a Christian full grown adult lady, not a teenybopper wannabe. Let the teenyboppers imitate us, not the other way around.

It is not a popular stand. It may yet cost me my church membership. But I dare not water down the gospel. My grandkids need to be able to tell at a glance the difference between Christians and pagans. Or heaven help us, we will have won the battle of attendance and lost the war for souls.

 

nodak,

That thing about dress got to me, too. It seems not to be a matter anymore of respecting God, much less glorifying Him, in what we wear to church. I think God would be happy to dress His "kids" up well -- not let them be provocative -- not have them appear as if He can't provide for even minimally respectful Sunday clothes. There are people who can't afford to enter into His presence "dressed to the hilt." But, man, most don't have to look like a derelicts in torn jeans and T-shirts either!

Go ahead and lose 'em if they don't respect God. It is the "fear of God that is the beginning of wisdom."

skypair

 

Thanks, skypair. Don't get me wrong--I live in the west. My skin demands cotton, so denim is a big part of my wardrobe. But I can wear my best "grandma jeans" on a snowy day with a nice cotton top. That is a whole 'nuther look than the popular "Hannah Montana" look so many 60something gals are wearing in my town. Mine probably cost less, so it isn't about making anyone feel they do not have nice enough clothes for church.

Try as I might, I just cannot get away from Romans 12:1-2.

 

Aw...

...I'm just 'fussin'!'

I've actually got an appointment this week to meet the assoc. pastor at my church about our "seeked friendly" direction. I don't suppose it will accomplish anything since new pastor, new song leader, new assistant songleader, small groups, activities schedule, etc. all tell me we've become a social church -- perhaps an "emerging" or "emergent" church.

You can pray for that with me if you will. raying: All the lessons I've had here at BB, at least I probably won't "offend" him. :laugh:

skypair

 

As an OSU fan, your new avatar should be disavowed :laugh:

 

It's seeping into the church, too. See my koinonia thread in the general baptist forum...
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=52243