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Featured The Distinction Between the Lord's New Testament Church and the Kingdom of GOD.

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by Alan Gross, Jan 31, 2023.

  1. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Oct 16, 2018
    Likes Received:
    I gave some extras. If I missed one that you wanted, let me know.

    from: http://baptisthistoryhomepage.com/fisher.niles.the.concept.of.the.church.universal.invisible.html

    3. The problem of Matthew 16:18-19 with 18:17-18.

    Jesus said, "...upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" [Matthew 16:18-19].

    "And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church..."

    "Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be bound in heaven" [18:17-18].

    It is apparent that the church in Matthew 16:18 is the same as that in 18:17. Verse 19 of the 16th chapter and verse 18 of the 18th chapter tie them together and so identify them. It is furthermore apparent that the church of chapter 18 is local. There is no possible way to tell a thing unto a universal church. It is, therefore, imperative for the sake of consistency, to accept 16:18 as local, otherwise, there exists a problem without a solution.

    "Now, therefore, ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, (the saved and baptized in the church at Ephesus) and of the household of God (the saved and baptized in the church at Ephesus);

    "And (the saved and baptized in the church at Ephesus) are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;"

    Jesus Built His kind of church assembly and Promised to be with her, until the end of the age. Jesus Built His church assembly on Himself, the Rock, the Cheif Cornerstone.

    from: http://baptisthistoryhomepage.com/fisher.niles.the.concept.of.the.church.universal.invisible.html

    12. The problem of Ephesians 1:22-23 with 3:19.

    "...and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all."

    This is the most often used Scripture to refer to the universal church. Yet, even this same body, "filled unto all the fulness of God," is presently applied, in the apostle's prayer, to the particular congregation in 3:19 when he prays they might be "filled with all the fulness of God."

    from: The Myth Of The Universal Invisible Church EXPLODED (Section 3) by Roy Mason - Sovereign Grace Landmark Baptist Pastor

    Ephesians 1:22-23 - "And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all."

    There is nothing in this to justify the idea that Paul was writing about a new kind of church. He is using the term church in the institutional sense, but had he particularized, according to the law of language, he would have signified a local assembly.

    For illustration, one might speak of the American home as being based on marriage. Wouldn't it be foolish to think of the American home as some sort of Universal, invisible home? No, to particularize one would have to designate an actual visible home.

    But the argument is made that this Scripture requires something bigger than a mere local body since Christ is head over all things to it. Why? The truth is each local assembly is a body of Christ, and He should be head over all things to every such church. Paul, the writer of this Scripture likewise writes to the Corinthians as expressed in I Corinthians 12:27 and says, "Now ye (the Corinthian church) are a body of Christ and members in particular." The King James translates it "THE body of Christ," but the definite article is missing from the Greek. If the Corinthian church was "A body of Christ," then every other such church is likewise the same.

    13. The problem of Ephesians 2:21-22.

    The church is said to be the temple or dwelling of God. The text [ARV] "In whom each several building, fitly framed together, groweth into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom ye also are builded together for a habitation of God in the Spirit."

    "Each several building" is a reference to the local church. It carries the idea of each local congregation, of which the Ephesian church was one. It is difficult to conceive of the church as a temple referring to a universal thing. Each several building - each local congregation grows together to form a holy temple in the Lord. It is clear that "temple" is a metaphor used of local churches in their place as the habitation of God.

    20 "Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

    21 "Unto him be glory in the church (each and every local assembly)
    by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

    Which church body (each local one) is a Habitation of God, through the Spirit.

    Ephesians 2:22

    "In whom ye (the saved and baptized members at Ephesus)

    also (ye = the saved and baptized members at Ephesus)

    are builded together (as a church body)

    for an habitation of God through the Spirit
    (a spiritual house, an holy priesthood)."

    see: "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."
    1 Peter 2:5

    from: http://baptisthistoryhomepage.com/fisher.niles.the.concept.of.the.church.universal.invisible.html

    14. The problem of Ephesians 4:3.

    This, with the verses that follow, forms an exhortation to the Ephesian church to unity. The sevenfold basis of unity is given, one of which is said to be "one body." How could that church, or any other, keep the unity in the matter of one body, if that body is universal and invisible?

    15. The problem of Ephesians 4: 7-12.

    Christ has given evangelists, pastors and teachers for the "perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ." How can evangelists, pastors and teachers edify a universal, spiritual body, when they can only minister in one locality at one time? They could edify part of it (if it were universal), but not the whole of it. Yet they are said to be given to edify The Body of Christ.

    16. The problem of Ephesians 4:12-16.

    As we have seen in above, Christ gave His church the gifts "For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying if itself in love."

    How can a universal, invisible church come to a full maturity and be not tossed about by every wind of doctrine? If this refers, as many believe, to the universal church, it has never reached this position. It would follow, therefore that the gifts (for they were given to this end) have all failed, and are failing, and probably will continue to do so until Jesus comes.

    from: http://baptisthistoryhomepage.com/fisher.niles.the.concept.of.the.church.universal.invisible.html

    17. The problem of Ephesians 5:25-27.

    "Husbands love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."

    How can a bride be existing as such when not yet wedded to Christ, nor complete? The bride must be complete, accepted and glorified according to this Scripture and Revelation 19.

  2. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Oct 16, 2018
    Likes Received:
    9 "God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord." ?? Might need to retake that one(?)

    On these verses, if you will allow me to inject my thoughts, in parentheses.

    12 "For as the body (one local body of believers)
    is one (like the human body is one piece),

    and hath many members (the local body of believers that are the "many members"),

    and all the members of that one body (the local body of believers),

    being many, are one body (one local body of believers): so also is Christ.

    13 "For by one Spirit (by the Supernatural Superintendance of the Holy Spirit Guiding His children to be baptized and where)

    are we (The members of that church of Jesus', at Corinth)
    all baptized (by water)
    into one body (added to one local body, by baptism),

    "whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free";
    and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    ( Whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free, all kinds of folks may be saved and added to the same church assembly.

    Whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free, all kinds of folks
    "did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ".

    This Salvation by the Holy Spirit in vs.13, "and have been all made to drink into one Spirit"

    is different than The Holy Spirit's Leading of Saved individuals to be baptized in water, in vs. 12, "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body.

    The teaching is, "We were led to be baptized together into one assembly, by the same Spirit that Saved us.)


    from: http://baptisthistoryhomepage.com/fisher.niles.the.concept.of.the.church.universal.invisible.html

    7. The problem of I Corinthians 12:14-21.

    If there exists literally a universal, invisible, mystical, spiritual body, composed of all believers, of which Christ is the head, how is it that some members are likened to the eye, others to the ear, and. some to the nose; all of which are parts of the head. These members are here on earth and Christ the head is in heaven. Yet these members are said to be part of the head.

    If there is a literal body now in existence on the universal plane in all its mystical wonder, the Scripture in question is impossible to explain.

    If, however, the term "body" is a metaphor to explain the nature of a local church, there exists no problem in this passage.

  3. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Oct 16, 2018
    Likes Received:
    A considerably detailed explanation,
    for anyone interested, to

    Distinguishing The Kingdom of God,
    The Family of God, and The Church of God.

    "The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens,
    And his Kingdom ruleth over all"
    – Psa. 103:19

    by Mark W. Fenison, Ph.D.



    Some Apparent Differences

    Eph. 3:15 "Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,"

    1 Cor. 1:13 "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:"

    1 Cor. 1:2 "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth,"

    "In this chapter, you will discover many prima facia differences between the kingdom, family, and church of God.

    "Even if you might disagree with some of these noted distinctions, there are so many listed that make it impossible to view the kingdom, family, and church as synonyms.

    "Many of these noted distinctions are not merely based upon proof-texting.

    "Furthermore, the following chapters will sustain these are to be distinguished from one another rather than interpreted as synonyms.

    1. The difference of terminology and meaning:

    a. "Family" - Greek "patria" - those fathered – lineage

    b. "Kingdom" - Greek "basilea" - the rule and realm and Person of a king

    c. "Church" - Greek "ekklesia" - congregation, assembly

    2. The different applications

    a. The Bible speaks of the “gospel of the kingdom” but never uses such language for the family or church. Kingdom-Family-Church Page 6

    b. The Bible speaks of the “keys of the kingdom” but never uses such language for the church or family of God.

    c. The term “member” is never used in scripture to describe those in God’s kingdom or family but only those in churches.

    d. The church is called a “body” and “building” but the kingdom and family are never thus called.

    e. Jesus says “tell it to the church” but never says tell it to the kingdom or family.

    f. The terms “kingdom” and “family” are only found in the singular but the term “church” is found in the plural (36 times) and in the singular (79 times).

    g. A “brother” can be placed outside the church membership by other brethren exercising church discipline, but no human disciplinary action can remove any “brother” outside the kingdom and family of God. – 1 Cor. 5:11; 2 Thes. 3:6,14.

    h. The professing kingdom contains “tares” (Mt. 13:41) and the church contains persons like Judas, but the family of God only contains true born again believers.

    i. The Kingdom and family contain persons without water baptism (all pre-New Testament believers and unbaptized believers in this age), but church membership is for only water-baptized professed believers – Acts 2:41-42

    j. We read of ‘elders” and “apostles” in the church but no such officers are ever used to describe those in the kingdom and family. Kingdom-Family-Church Page 7

    k. Geographical names are given to the church – “the church of God at Corinth” but no such geographical language is ever used for the kingdom and family of God.

    l. The church is described as being “built” and “fitly framed” but the kingdom is announced as “near at hand.” Neither the kingdom or family are said to be “built” or “fitly framed.”

    3. The Difference in Nature

    a. The church conveys an autonomous democratic body

    b. The kingdom conveys a sovereign rule

    c. The family conveys a paternal relationship

    4. The difference in relationship to God

    a. "Family" - the relationship is defined as "children"

    b. "Kingdom" relationship is defined as "citizens"

    c. "Church" - relationship is defined as "members"

    5. The difference in size

    a. "Family" includes all saints in heaven and presently on earth - Eph. 3:15

    b. "Kingdom" –Is God’s rule over the entire universe but in regard to his spiritual kingdom on earth it includes only “the seed” presently on earth at any given time - Mt. 13

    c. "Church" – includes baptized believers gathered out of God's kingdom and family on earth who actually assemble together - Acts 2:41"