The Doctrine of Original Sin

You first brother!
I am off to bed. 6:30am comes earlier that it used to for me...

I do look forward to the discussion.

Does this mean I win? I am posting first :laugh:

God bless and many blessings!!!

 

Its morning where I am, where's the first post, lol?

 

I believe in Original Sin, but I think maybe I am different than others on BB. I believe when Adam sinned he brought both the natural death and the spiritual death, but where I differ is, I believe the natural death, in most cases is out in the future life of a man. Likewise, the Spiritual death is somewhere in the future, when a man comes to know to do good and does it not, then He sins, and the "soul that sinneth shall die.
The reason I believe its in the future is, that if babies were to die, they have not reached the Spiritual death and therefore would not be lost. When they grow enough to know God, and Glorify Him not as God, then they die in Sin, and stand in need of the blood of Christ.

Other words, I believe they are in the future of men, except when babies die, they escape the second death.

How can a soul sin and die, if it is born dead. This is just my belief. If you want scripture, I will hunt them for you.

BBob,

 

Here's my confession:

"I was born with a sin nature."

 

Were you born condemned because of Adam's sin?

 

I suspect that goes along with my post.
To be born with a sin nature, is different than to be born spiritually dead. IMO

BBob,

 

Except that TC is Calvinist and all C's believe we are born spiritually dead.

 

I was born with a sin nature and sinned in Adam (Rom 5:12), so yes!

By nature I was an object of God's wrath (Eph 2:3).

 

I don't see a difference in Scripture, BBob (Eph 2:1-3).

 

It's what the Bible teaches (Eph 2:1-3).

 

The Gospel According to the Heretic Pelagius (WHI)

relevant to the discussion...

 

You have hooked us up with some great links. Thanks

 

My pleasure! :type:

 

Hi brother RB and everyone else on the board,

In discussing original sin, I think it's important to look at the original sin. I then ask a few questions: What is original sin, does it apply to me and did the works of Christ change anything.

Adam was sinless before the fall. He was in the right relationship with God. He walked and talked with Him. He was free to eat from any tree in the garden and before the commandment came, I believe he was even free to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. But when the commandment came, Adam was now the keeper of himself. What I mean by that is, it was up to him to keep himself spotless, by not eating from that specific tree. When he did eat of it, he transgressed the law of God and the fall of all men came with his disobedience.

What this meant, is that from birth, man was born in sin. Seperated from God. Not in the proper relationship with the most high Lord in heaven. Because of original sin, man's heart was completely wicked. Not only was man not capable of seeking God, they didn't want to seek Him. In other words, man was lost with no chance for redemption.

This was part of God's plan. He elected a nation to be His people, and from this people, Christ would come.

That answers my first two questions, now I have to ask if the work of Christ changed anything.

All sin required a sacrifice (OT), even the unknown sins. I believe Christ died for the sins of the world. He rose from the dead beating death hell and the grave and offering eternal life, to all those that believe and trust in Him. Therefore, He died for the sins of the world, His resurrection was for eternal life.

Adam was completely free before the commandment, I see Christ setting us completely free of the penalty of sin. When God gave Adam a commandment, Adam could not keep it, just as we are not able to keep the commandment when God speaks to our heart. Adam transgressed and so do we. We then become unable and completely unwilling to seek after God and His righteousness. I believe the Bible teaches that Christ came to seek and to save that which is lost. When God spoke to me, I was lost. I believe He speaks to all men in His way. When He speaks, we are able to respond, not until.

When Christ saves us, we are then kept by the power of God. I see two men, the natural and the spiritual (I often refer to this and the outer man and inner man). When we are born, naturally we are born in the sin of Adam, inwardly we are innocent because of the work of Christ on the cross. Outwardly, we are sown in sin (or with a sin nature), inwardly we are alive. The reason, Christ paid the price for my original sin.

When the commandment came to me, like Paul, sin revived and I died (Spiritually). I see death as a seperation. When I naturally die, I am cut off from the natural living. When I died spiritually, I was spiritually cut off from God. Only by the grace of God is anyone saved from that point. Only those that believe in His Son and believe and trust in the resurrection are saved.

I know I went farther than just original sin, but I feel original sin and total depravity walk hand and hand. Because of Christ on the cross, we are born with the original sin nature only. Free from the penalty that sin carries. When God speaks to us, we then die spiritually and are totally depraved, and in danger of the wrath to come.

Brother RB, I am sure you will disagree with my view (Or parts of it), but this is how I see it in scripture. I have attempted to put it as plain as I can. Some may have issues with the wording, if so, ask and I will try to clarify my points better. I do not profess to know it all, so maybe someone will help me to grow in the knowledge of God's word.

God bless and many blessings to all!!!

 

So, we are back to "how can the soul die, if it was already dead at birth"??

BBob,

 

How are you defining death?

 

Spiritual..............

 

from here - bold and italics by me - and I strongly encourage you to take the jump and read the entire article/chapter

 

Seems to me, that man can refuse God, even after being made aware of Him.

Rom 1:18 ¶ For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Job 32:8 But [there is] a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

BBob,