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The Effectual Call

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by John Gilmore, Jun 10, 2004.

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  1. John Gilmore

    John Gilmore New Member

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    From the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith:
    "We are enabled to answer this call" sounds Arminian to me although I understand the Calvinist would say the grace offered in the effectual call is irresistible. But, if the call is irresistible, wouldn't the answer and embrace of the grace offered and conveyed be instantaneous with the call? The statement makes it appear that there are two separate events. How is a delay consistent with divine monergism? Wouldn't that imply resistance to the irresistible?
     
    #1 John Gilmore, Jun 10, 2004
  2. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Do you have a link to the full 1689 confession? I would be interested in seeing if it mentions anything about God making EVERYONE alive and renewed by the Holy Spirit, or only the elect.
     
    #2 npetreley, Jun 10, 2004
  3. John Gilmore

    John Gilmore New Member

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    #3 John Gilmore, Jun 10, 2004
  4. John Gilmore

    John Gilmore New Member

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    npetreley,

    The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith is very similar to the Calvinist (link:) Westminster Confession of Faith with respect to election. Only the elect may be effectually called (regenerated). I don't see any mention of renewal that would be outside the effectual call much less the ministry of the word.

     
    #4 John Gilmore, Jun 11, 2004
  5. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    From Chapter 20 -- Emphasis mine...

    Note that it is God who -- specifically in the elect -- "begets (gives birth to) faith and repentance".

    In simpler words, man has no control whatsoever over who hears the Gospel, and it is not the responsibility of man to decide. If God sends us out to preach, we go out to preach. Whether or not we THINK we have something to do with how, when and where, God is sovereign even over where, when, and to whom the Gospel is preached. God may USE man to spread the Gospel, but God does that according to His own counsel and will.

    In other words, the Gospel alone does not have an effect on men, because we're dead. There is also tne necessity of the Holy Spirit's work upon the whole soul. God must, by the Holy Spirit, produce a whole new spiritual life within us, without which there is no means of converting us to God.

    To whom does all of the above apply? As the first part says, it is -- "as the means of calling the elect, and begetting in them faith and repentance.

    [ June 11, 2004, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: npetreley ]
     
    #5 npetreley, Jun 11, 2004
  6. John Gilmore

    John Gilmore New Member

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    npetreley,

    A man hears the gospel but it has no inward effect until years later when he first believes. Is such a scenario possible? If so, would you say the effectual call occurred:

    1. In the eternal councils of the Godhead.
    2. When he heard the gospel.
    3. When he first believed.
    4. None of the above.
     
    #6 John Gilmore, Jun 11, 2004
  7. John Gilmore

    John Gilmore New Member

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    Actually, there is mention of renewal outside the ministry of the word:

    Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases; so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.
    1689 London Baptist Confession

    Elect infants, dying in infancy, are regenerated, and saved by Christ, through the Spirit,[who works when, and where, and how He pleases: so also are all other elect persons who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.
    Westminster Confession of Faith
     
    #7 John Gilmore, Jun 21, 2004
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